Great!
I'm getting closer to finishing my boards now. The main-boards are pretty much almost finished - but i miss one transistor clip for the heatsink (thanks alfred for getting a new one in the post to me), and a few components to solder. Then i just need to sort out a few thinks with the case.
This is a fun - but time consuming project
Hi,
reducing the 2R2 to 2R0 will result in increased idle current (75mA), hence increaseing Heat Power Loss in the JFETs and the more so in the bipolar driver transistorsQ3/Q6.
The latter need to dissipate close to 1W each.
If one doesn´t want to drive loads <100R it´d be a good alternative to reduce the idle current and losses.
Instead the 2R2 one may use 4R7 or the same 6R8 as for R5/R7.
With 4R7 the idle current drops to 48mA and Q3/Q6 disspate ~620mW, nearly 40% less! This is sufficient to drive a 100R load with 5Vrms at <0.1%.
With 6R8 the idle current drops to 40mA and Q3/Q6 disspate less than 500mW, over 50% less! This is sufficient to drive a 100R load with 3.5Vrms at <0.1%.
jauu
Calvin
reducing the 2R2 to 2R0 will result in increased idle current (75mA), hence increaseing Heat Power Loss in the JFETs and the more so in the bipolar driver transistorsQ3/Q6.
The latter need to dissipate close to 1W each.
If one doesn´t want to drive loads <100R it´d be a good alternative to reduce the idle current and losses.
Instead the 2R2 one may use 4R7 or the same 6R8 as for R5/R7.
With 4R7 the idle current drops to 48mA and Q3/Q6 disspate ~620mW, nearly 40% less! This is sufficient to drive a 100R load with 5Vrms at <0.1%.
With 6R8 the idle current drops to 40mA and Q3/Q6 disspate less than 500mW, over 50% less! This is sufficient to drive a 100R load with 3.5Vrms at <0.1%.
jauu
Calvin
Hi ,
Just want to say thanks to all people involved in the Paradise project - specially to Joachim ,Alfred and Frans for sharing construction and knowledge - this phono stage is simply amazing . Last two and half month I try to compare it with all reachable phono stages in my area from audiophile friends and DIYers - just to compare them and prove (at least to myself as builder and owner) that Paradise is sounding better than others - including very expensive production ones and very complicated DIY solid state and tube based. And the result is -all my 3 previous DIY phono stages collecting dust on the shelf - i listen now music from my LP collection with Paradise only .
I have question to all builders - what kind (type) of the connection cable between RCA sockets and board are you using with the best sonic results in your Paradise phono stage build ? If my question sounds stupid or somewhere in the tread was remark about using MUNDORF silver-gold PFTE 1.0 mm for the internal wiring -one and only for the best results -and if i miss something - sorry
Thanks in advance
With respect to all this tread members and DIY community
Alex
Just want to say thanks to all people involved in the Paradise project - specially to Joachim ,Alfred and Frans for sharing construction and knowledge - this phono stage is simply amazing . Last two and half month I try to compare it with all reachable phono stages in my area from audiophile friends and DIYers - just to compare them and prove (at least to myself as builder and owner
) that Paradise is sounding better than others - including very expensive production ones and very complicated DIY solid state and tube based. And the result is -all my 3 previous DIY phono stages collecting dust on the shelf - i listen now music from my LP collection with Paradise only .I have question to all builders - what kind (type) of the connection cable between RCA sockets and board are you using with the best sonic results in your Paradise phono stage build ? If my question sounds stupid or somewhere in the tread was remark about using MUNDORF silver-gold PFTE 1.0 mm for the internal wiring -one and only for the best results -and if i miss something - sorry
Thanks in advance
With respect to all this tread members and DIY community
Alex
Hi Alex
At the moment I’m using this
http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/wire.html
19/015 silver plated copper screened wire @ £5.40 per M it's nice enough.
I did note the recommendation to use twisted wires on the IP but my Paradise is so quiet I’ve not felt much need to change things.
I do have some Mundorf Silver/Gold which I’ve used in the past as IC’s but found it sounded just a little light in the Bass department in my set up.
I’ve not used the Mundorf in my Paradise build so I can’t say how it may sound but I’m interested in your thoughts if you try for yourself.
ATB
At the moment I’m using this
http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/wire.html
19/015 silver plated copper screened wire @ £5.40 per M it's nice enough.
I did note the recommendation to use twisted wires on the IP but my Paradise is so quiet I’ve not felt much need to change things.
I do have some Mundorf Silver/Gold which I’ve used in the past as IC’s but found it sounded just a little light in the Bass department in my set up.
I’ve not used the Mundorf in my Paradise build so I can’t say how it may sound but I’m interested in your thoughts if you try for yourself.
ATB
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Hi,
the additional current draw of the buffer required an increase in PSU current, yes.
Beeing a shunt regulator PSU there must be a considerable overhead of current compared to the current draw of the supplied circuit.
The relationship is simple:
The ccs current - circuit supply current = shunt-reg current (must be >>0mA)
Afair the overhead current through the shunt reg was so large that even a 75mA buffer needed only 30mA increase of the ccs to fulfill the equation.
Anyway keeping R5/R7 = 6R8 and changing R6/R11 only will mostly change the current in the bipolar drivers, while the current through the JFETs remains nearly the same.
R6/R11=2R7 --> IR5/R7= 58.2mA, IR6/R11= 64.5mA
R6/R11=4R7 --> IR5/R7= 42.1mA, IR6/R11= 47.7mA
R6/R11=6R8 --> IR5/R7= 32.5mA, IR6/R11= 37.7mA
R6/R11=8R2 --> IR5/R7= 28.1mA, IR6/R11= 33.1mA
R6/R11=9R1 --> IR5/R7= 25.8mA, IR6/R11= 30.7mA
R6/R11=10R --> IR5/R7= 23.8mA, IR6/R11= 28.6mA
R6/R11=15R --> IR5/R7= 16.5mA, IR6/R11= 21.0mA
R6/R11=22R --> IR5/R7= 11.1mA, IR6/R11= 15.3mA
Reducing the idle current of the buffer will increase the current through the shunt reg. So this will run hotter, due to more current overhead.
If that prooves too much, one could reduce the current through the CCS accordingly.
Anyway, if You don´t intend to drive low impedance loads <1k 15mA of idle current through the buffer will suffice.
jauu
Calvin
the additional current draw of the buffer required an increase in PSU current, yes.
Beeing a shunt regulator PSU there must be a considerable overhead of current compared to the current draw of the supplied circuit.
The relationship is simple:
The ccs current - circuit supply current = shunt-reg current (must be >>0mA)
Afair the overhead current through the shunt reg was so large that even a 75mA buffer needed only 30mA increase of the ccs to fulfill the equation.
Anyway keeping R5/R7 = 6R8 and changing R6/R11 only will mostly change the current in the bipolar drivers, while the current through the JFETs remains nearly the same.
R6/R11=2R7 --> IR5/R7= 58.2mA, IR6/R11= 64.5mA
R6/R11=4R7 --> IR5/R7= 42.1mA, IR6/R11= 47.7mA
R6/R11=6R8 --> IR5/R7= 32.5mA, IR6/R11= 37.7mA
R6/R11=8R2 --> IR5/R7= 28.1mA, IR6/R11= 33.1mA
R6/R11=9R1 --> IR5/R7= 25.8mA, IR6/R11= 30.7mA
R6/R11=10R --> IR5/R7= 23.8mA, IR6/R11= 28.6mA
R6/R11=15R --> IR5/R7= 16.5mA, IR6/R11= 21.0mA
R6/R11=22R --> IR5/R7= 11.1mA, IR6/R11= 15.3mA
Reducing the idle current of the buffer will increase the current through the shunt reg. So this will run hotter, due to more current overhead.
If that prooves too much, one could reduce the current through the CCS accordingly.
Anyway, if You don´t intend to drive low impedance loads <1k 15mA of idle current through the buffer will suffice.
jauu
Calvin
Hi ,
Just want to say thanks to all people involved in the Paradise project - specially to Joachim ,Alfred and Frans for sharing construction and knowledge - this phono stage is simply amazing . Last two and half month I try to compare it with all reachable phono stages in my area from audiophile friends and DIYers - just to compare them and prove (at least to myself as builder and owner
I have question to all builders - what kind (type) of the connection cable between RCA sockets and board are you using with the best sonic results in your Paradise phono stage build ? If my question sounds stupid or somewhere in the tread was remark about using MUNDORF silver-gold PFTE 1.0 mm for the internal wiring -one and only for the best results -and if i miss something - sorry
Thanks in advance
With respect to all this tread members and DIY community
Alex
My player uses 'van den Hull' silver inside the arm, and then 4 x RG58 from a board directly under the arm (where the silver terminates) to the preamplifier
Connected to the preamp using screw-fit RCA's 4 x. Maybe I will change/update this to nice silver BNC's. There is a separate ground wire for the arm and the chassis.
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The original buffer of the Paradise is deactivated by removing Q99 and Q91 and will no longer draw current. The 30mA are the difference between the calvin buffer and the original one
I haven't simulated the buffers (or built them yet) i just read the Calvin assembly guide where it was stated
The supply voltage is +/-18V, and the supply current is 30mA. The bandwidth is about 10MHz -3dB, and C1 and C2 can be used to adjust thesquare wave response for no overshoot.
So that isn't really right then. But now i know - it is probably better to lower the idle current then, since it will feed alot higher impedance that quoted above!
The original buffer of the Paradise is deactivated by removing Q99 and Q91 and will no longer draw current. The 30mA are the difference between the calvin buffer and the original one
The original buffer was said to use only 6mA earlier when i asked, so that cannot be right?
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I haven't simulated the buffers (or built them yet) i just read the Calvin assembly guide where it was stated
The supply voltage is +/-18V, and the supply current is 30mA. The bandwidth is about 10MHz -3dB, and C1 and C2 can be used to adjust thesquare wave response for no overshoot.
So that isn't really right then. But now i know - it is probably better to lower the idle current then, since it will feed alot higher impedance that quoted above!
The original buffer was said to use only 6mA earlier when i asked, so that cannot be right?
Also besides this - does anybody know where to buy copper sheet in 0.5mm to 0.9mm thickness? I'm going to use between the input transistors to temperature couple them.
I find on ebay for example, but not that ships to sweden for a fair price at least.
Thanks shoom !Hi Alex
At the moment I’m using this
HGC pure silver wire, Audio Note internal tonearm wire, Mundorf silver/gold wire, cardas cartridge clips, PTFE sleeving, heatshrink, silk tubing, cotton tubing, Audio Note speaker cable, OFC loudspeaker wire
19/015 silver plated copper screened wire @ £5.40 per M it's nice enough.
I did note the recommendation to use twisted wires on the IP but my Paradise is so quiet I’ve not felt much need to change things.
I do have some Mundorf Silver/Gold which I’ve used in the past as IC’s but found it sounded just a little light in the Bass department in my set up.
I’ve not used the Mundorf in my Paradise build so I can’t say how it may sound but I’m interested in your thoughts if you try for yourself.
ATB
I already try MUNDORF silver/gold (borrowed from a friend)and in my system sound was with some cut in the lower bass section-not enough bodyweight in the voices - so i decide not to use it in the future. At the moment i am using KLOTZ MC5000 microphone cable or canare L-2T2S.
Thanks Frans !
I will try RG58 - hopefully next week.
Best regards,
Alex
the big advantage of the calvin buffer is the adjustable offset in the buffer - set it to zero, and the servo will adjust the Paradise to zero as well. Otherwise you have the inverse of the output buffer offset (1.5V in my case) as DC across the RIAA section, which might be one of the reasons why with the Calvin buffer it sounds better, IMHO
Hi Marra
I had the same DC offset lowering with the 627 so that’s 3 of us now that have reported the difference. Alfred’s comments on the potential benefits of the Calvin buffer are spot especially the ability to dial out Offset.
What I will say is that my build with Calvin Buffer sounds so tonally rich and to quote Joachim ‘’effortless’’.
A real power house.
It’s a pretty quick mod to install so well worth the time and effort IMHO.
This Phono stage is starting to get pretty expensive with all of the new Vinyl that I’ve been ordering.