Angling for 90° - tangential pivot tonearms - Page 42 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Source & Line > Analogue Source

Analogue Source Turntables, Tonearms, Cartridges, Phono Stages, Tuners, Tape Recorders, etc.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 22nd October 2012, 09:33 PM   #411
diyAudio Member
 
Esperado's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: France
Quote:
Originally Posted by berlinta View Post
Hi Christophe, Did you work for Rega too?
Never...
I don't even know witch one was the first on the market...
To be sincere, it is just a bad idea... Just a look for sale... Better to have your vinyls damped on all their surface.

It can help with some very deformed vinyls to find a middle between ups and downs, the only advantage i can see...
__________________
Ultimate Protection and more.The Only Source of Knowledge is experience, everything else is just information” ©A. Einstein
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd October 2012, 10:20 PM   #412
jlsem is offline jlsem  United States
diyAudio Member
 
jlsem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Dallas,TX
Dobbins showed the Schroeder arm last year but I don't think it had the letterwood arm like this one. Unfortunately I missed RMAF this year.

John
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd October 2012, 07:33 AM   #413
diyAudio Member
 
directdriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Frank Schröder interview for the 2012 RMAF:

Quote:
What's new about the new Schröder tangentially tracking tonearm?

First of all, it does what all linear tracking tonearms try to achieve, namely holding the stylus assembly, not just the cartridge, in a position that equals that of the cutting stylus at all times/radii as it traces a record.

But where conventional linear tracking tonearms rely on either a servo mechanism to keep the error below a certain threshold or a passively driven, low to near zero friction bearing assembly, the new Schröder utilizes a patent pending mechanism that moves the foot point (base) of the tonearm as it traces the grooves such that perfect tangency is maintained at all times. No servo, no air pumps and hoses, no excessive effective mass in the horizontal plane.

You'll notice that the headshell doesn't feature an offset angle, indispensable for conventional pivoted arms to minimize tracing error related distortions. Here, the cartridge suspension will not be loaded asymmetrically as (when properly set up) there is no skating force for which to compensate, nor even an asymmetry in the mass distribution of the main arm.

The total displacement of the foot point is less than one third of the required equivalent for a conventional linear tracking tonearm. The forces required to move the entire arm are considerably smaller due to the proportionally greater leverage and the use of the finest bearing available. This accounts for a total bearing friction in the horizontal plane that is lower than 3.5mg.

The bearings for the vertical movement are zero friction/zero stiction designs, combining the virtues of an airbearing with the rigidity of a preloaded ball bearing.

All relevant parameters are adjustable, including VTA/SRA. I opted for a simple, yet mechanically sound shaft/collar arrangement. A preloaded set screw allows for changes without the risk of the arm "dropping". VTF is fine tunable via a small knurled weight screw behind the main counterweight. Azimuth can be adjusted within a range of +/- 3°

The effective mass falls into the medium to high category. Depending upon your choice of cartridge mounting plate (a proven concept taken over from previous Schröder tonearm designs), it ranges from 14 to 21gr.

The effective length of the main arm is 250mm, the pivot to spindle mounting distance 275mm due to the additional pivoting bar. Obviously, the overhang is Zero.

The armwands are handmade of either Snakewood or Grenadill, both treated extensively (a time and labor intensive process) to assure total immunity from changes in humidity or temperature.

The headshell is fabricated from a proprietary material that combines stiffness, low mass and high internal damping.

The cryogenically treated, high purity copper wiring runs uninterrupted from the cartridge clips to the RCAs Bullet plugs(XLRs available upon request).

What does all of this mean in terms of sound quality?

The new arm, which shall be labelled Schröder LT, for "linear tracking"(even though it isn't in the strictest sense of the word) omits many a flaw of existing arms, pivoted or linear tracking, by keeping all forces exerted on the cantilever assembly (other than those generated by the groove) to an unprecedented minimum. This results in a greater dynamic range, an extremely clean rendition of complex signals, rock solid images in space, neither blown up nor reduced to mere dots, but three-dimensional as captured by the recording engineer. Like all of my previous designs I value truthfulness of timbre very highly, so expect a total absence of "grain" or resonances that may add "excitement" but will ultimately lead to listening fatigue.

It was engineered and built simply to communicate emotion inherent in all types of great music, so listen for yourself...

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by directdriver; 23rd October 2012 at 07:46 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd October 2012, 11:07 AM   #414
diyAudio Member
 
Esperado's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: France
Quote:
Originally Posted by directdriver View Post
Frank Schröder interview for the 2012 RMAF:
"The cryogenically treated..."
Handcrafted by virgins...
Where one word can destroy the credibility of an entire page of arguments about friction forces.
__________________
Ultimate Protection and more.The Only Source of Knowledge is experience, everything else is just information” ©A. Einstein

Last edited by Esperado; 23rd October 2012 at 11:10 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th October 2012, 11:52 PM   #415
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Prescott, Arizona
Default Esperado

What does cryogenically treated copper wire have to do with frictional forces?

Where, in the interview, does it say anything about "handcrafted by virgins"?

Ralf
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th October 2012, 12:22 AM   #416
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Willamette Valley
First Amendment Right to be Wrong. Dumbocracy. Ego. Etc.

In other news, it's great to see new posts here.
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th October 2012, 12:41 AM   #417
diyAudio Member
 
Esperado's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: France
Quote:
Originally Posted by Straight Tracker View Post
1- What does cryogenically treated copper wire have to do with frictional forces?
2-Where, in the interview, does it say anything about "handcrafted by virgins"?
Hi, Straight Tracker
1: He pretend that he have less frictional forces with a system using at least more than twice the ball bearings of a traditional arm.
That is as credible than talking about snake oil quality, oh, sorry, cryogenic snake oil.When he talked about cryogenic, i made my mind...
2- Where do -you see quotes in this personal comment ?
Just, i'm pissed off by all this make believe marketing fairy tales.
__________________
Ultimate Protection and more.The Only Source of Knowledge is experience, everything else is just information” ©A. Einstein

Last edited by Esperado; 25th October 2012 at 12:47 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th October 2012, 01:13 AM   #418
diyAudio Member
 
directdriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
It's all about context. It's not hard to see the Schröder arm having less friction than mechanical arms in the horizontal movement. Pivot bearings in general have less friction than linear bearings. He didn't say "traditional arm." He meant "conventional linear tracking tonearms" as explained in the below quote:
Quote:
But where conventional linear tracking tonearms rely on either a servo mechanism to keep the error below a certain threshold or a passively driven, low to near zero friction bearing assembly, the new Schröder utilizes a patent pending mechanism that moves the foot point (base) of the tonearm as it traces the grooves such that perfect tangency is maintained at all times. No servo, no air pumps and hoses, no excessive effective mass in the horizontal plane.
The part about low friction is referring "vertical movement" of the arm and he did NOT claim it has less friction than traditional arm:
Quote:
"The bearings for the vertical movement are zero friction/zero stiction designs, combining the virtues of an airbearing with the rigidity of a preloaded ball bearing."
And finally, why so angry? I assume you visit this thread often enough is because you enjoy observing and discussing this topic. Take it easy, Christophe. Have a beer, or cryogenically treated beer! Or one made by virgins?
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th October 2012, 01:34 AM   #419
diyAudio Member
 
Esperado's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: France
Quote:
Originally Posted by directdriver View Post
And finally, why so angry?
I was not angry, it was a wink.
And about vertical friction: "zero friction/zero stiction" WOW !
__________________
Ultimate Protection and more.The Only Source of Knowledge is experience, everything else is just information” ©A. Einstein
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th October 2012, 02:39 AM   #420
diyAudio Member
 
directdriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
I don't want to speak for Frank and I'm sure he will explain this further when he comes back to this thread and has the time. But in the meantime, we should be excited to finally have a commercial product that's an alternative to the dominance of air-bearing and servo arms. It's the only tangential pivot arm next to the Thales arms in the market today. I wish to see more in the future and one that's affordable to me or other budget minded audiophiles.

Long live tangency!
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
GLIDING FOR 90° - mechanical linear tonearms: no airpump, no servo directdriver Analogue Source 29 3rd May 2014 06:24 AM
Angling of ports and/or drivers? Dave McReeferson Full Range 11 27th March 2012 08:45 PM
String suspension vs. uni pivot or gimball tonearms nghiep Analogue Source 26 13th August 2011 05:27 AM
Angling drivers left and right in a vertical line-array???? ozziozzi Multi-Way 12 16th January 2009 05:23 AM
Need Amp For 90-0-90 V DC Drafance007 Solid State 15 12th October 2003 09:03 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 05:18 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2