Tweeters
Hi,
well if you get it on both speakers and it is volume related then I guess that you are either overloading both tweeters (unlikely, I think) or perhaps the high volume is showing distortion which is there in the signal already.
Have you done any rewiring or changes to the crossover? Are you using the original Yamaha tweeters? If not are the new ones with the same impedance as the Yamaha?
I hope we can sort this out.. I have heard that the Yamaha tweeters can distort if very old or treated badly, but it is a coincidence that both are doing it at the same time.
Tot ziens
George
Hi,
well if you get it on both speakers and it is volume related then I guess that you are either overloading both tweeters (unlikely, I think) or perhaps the high volume is showing distortion which is there in the signal already.
Have you done any rewiring or changes to the crossover? Are you using the original Yamaha tweeters? If not are the new ones with the same impedance as the Yamaha?
I hope we can sort this out.. I have heard that the Yamaha tweeters can distort if very old or treated badly, but it is a coincidence that both are doing it at the same time.
Tot ziens
George
I completely rebuild the crossover. I'll add a picture. It all worked nicely untill a week ago. Then I replaced the low end winding by the big one on the left.
Maybe the soldering isn't all that good? I was thinking of cleaning the pods tomorrow with contact60.
I don't have the problem with my other speakers (ACR RP300). And I have it both with the arcam AVR300 (tuner) and the tubeamp and dac/transport. With the first one the distortion sounds different from the tubes though.
Maybe the soldering isn't all that good? I was thinking of cleaning the pods tomorrow with contact60.
I don't have the problem with my other speakers (ACR RP300). And I have it both with the arcam AVR300 (tuner) and the tubeamp and dac/transport. With the first one the distortion sounds different from the tubes though.
Attachments
NS 1000 Over-rated ?
Hi
After reading all the hype about these speakers I recently had the opportunity to listen to a pair of NS1000 speaker -in mint condition, powered by a Naim pre-amp, Denon CD player and a McIntosh amp.
Whilst the sound was excellent for a 20 year old speaker, solo female voice was nearly unbearable to listen to. The speakers imaged poorly and sounded two dimensional.
Now you can flame me if you want but from what I heard, it is definitely not in the league this forum suggest it to be.
Audio regards to all.
Jozua
Hi
After reading all the hype about these speakers I recently had the opportunity to listen to a pair of NS1000 speaker -in mint condition, powered by a Naim pre-amp, Denon CD player and a McIntosh amp.
Whilst the sound was excellent for a 20 year old speaker, solo female voice was nearly unbearable to listen to. The speakers imaged poorly and sounded two dimensional.
Now you can flame me if you want but from what I heard, it is definitely not in the league this forum suggest it to be.
Audio regards to all.
Jozua
Re: NS 1000 Over-rated ?
Hi Jozua
Whilst the imaging problem has been widely acknowledged*, I must tell you that your impressions of the midrange (female voice) is at odds with my experience and that of others. What you may have witnessed is the warts-and-all presentation of the Yamaha. It hides nothing: if there is any hint of under-performance upstream (especially the source) the NS1000 will let you know it. That, or the else the speakers are in less than perfect condition.
Do take some time to read the rest of the thread. You will get a fair impression of the subjective performance this speaker.
*I have heard (read) it said that turning these speakers horizontally yields a much different performance
Jozua said:
Hi Jozua
Whilst the imaging problem has been widely acknowledged*, I must tell you that your impressions of the midrange (female voice) is at odds with my experience and that of others. What you may have witnessed is the warts-and-all presentation of the Yamaha. It hides nothing: if there is any hint of under-performance upstream (especially the source) the NS1000 will let you know it. That, or the else the speakers are in less than perfect condition.
Do take some time to read the rest of the thread. You will get a fair impression of the subjective performance this speaker.
*I have heard (read) it said that turning these speakers horizontally yields a much different performance
Ns1000 Midrange
Hi,
I have to agree with Shaun on this. The mid-range is normally superb... I think they equal the mid-range on the Quad ESL, which was my previous benchmark.
Concerning imaging.. lately it has massively improved by going from a Sony SCD-1 to a modified Sony PlayStation 1! However, with enough space around the speaker, and well away from walls it has always been acceptable.
For anyone interested, my bi-amping project has been on hold for a while but looks like picking up again in the Autumn (or Fall as it is sometimes known).
George
Hi,
I have to agree with Shaun on this. The mid-range is normally superb... I think they equal the mid-range on the Quad ESL, which was my previous benchmark.
Concerning imaging.. lately it has massively improved by going from a Sony SCD-1 to a modified Sony PlayStation 1! However, with enough space around the speaker, and well away from walls it has always been acceptable.
For anyone interested, my bi-amping project has been on hold for a while but looks like picking up again in the Autumn (or Fall as it is sometimes known).
George
Re: Ns1000 Midrange
Yes. Although I have not had the opportunity to test my theory, I believe that the acoustic (i.e., physical) environment must at least (or maybe alternatively) be symmetrical around then listening axis (i.e., to left and right), else the image is skewed/distorted.
georgebrooke said:
Yes. Although I have not had the opportunity to test my theory, I believe that the acoustic (i.e., physical) environment must at least (or maybe alternatively) be symmetrical around then listening axis (i.e., to left and right), else the image is skewed/distorted.
2 dimensional
Jozua,
I don't know if the speakers you listened to were modified. But I recently compared an unmodified pair with my modded pair (PIO modded). The remarks you made were the same I made then. Originaly the clarity is about the same, but the imaging was no way near as good as the modded pair. The modded pair placed any instrument or singer exactly at one spot 2 or 3 dimensional (depending on the cd). Unmodded you can only hear the potential of the speakers.
Jozua,
I don't know if the speakers you listened to were modified. But I recently compared an unmodified pair with my modded pair (PIO modded). The remarks you made were the same I made then. Originaly the clarity is about the same, but the imaging was no way near as good as the modded pair. The modded pair placed any instrument or singer exactly at one spot 2 or 3 dimensional (depending on the cd). Unmodded you can only hear the potential of the speakers.
jozua
I have owned and 'modded' many a naim gear. If you are talking bright sounding and 2 dimensional then i would immediately point at the Naim.
The Yamaha's also do need tweaking to get the very best from them. In unmodded form they do have a tendency to sound more 'boxed in' and with more emphasis on the upper frequencies.They love OTL's and valve amplifiers in general but need to be at least 20w to get the best from them.
If you read the earlier threads you will see the evolution these speakers go through with each mod made to them. I too used the Quad electrostatics as a reference. I cannot deny that i have never heard a better mid range speaker than the ESL57 and their imaging can be quite stunning, but the Yams can approach the midrange with the mods mentioned. However dynamics, bass impact, top end extension are superior to the ESL57. Imaging is still open to debate. The immediacy and electrostatic like speed of transients of the Yams is so stunning that it makes one wonder if there can possibly be an imaging problem at all???
I have owned and 'modded' many a naim gear. If you are talking bright sounding and 2 dimensional then i would immediately point at the Naim.
The Yamaha's also do need tweaking to get the very best from them. In unmodded form they do have a tendency to sound more 'boxed in' and with more emphasis on the upper frequencies.They love OTL's and valve amplifiers in general but need to be at least 20w to get the best from them.
If you read the earlier threads you will see the evolution these speakers go through with each mod made to them. I too used the Quad electrostatics as a reference. I cannot deny that i have never heard a better mid range speaker than the ESL57 and their imaging can be quite stunning, but the Yams can approach the midrange with the mods mentioned. However dynamics, bass impact, top end extension are superior to the ESL57. Imaging is still open to debate. The immediacy and electrostatic like speed of transients of the Yams is so stunning that it makes one wonder if there can possibly be an imaging problem at all???
Coruscate
I overcame the lower end 'problem' with a simple electronic crossover and dipole stereo subwoofers which beautifully integrated with the YAms. With some experimenting, i found that the dipoles needed to be placed two feet to the front and side of the Yams. The best results were obtained with peerless long throw bass units and 400w plus Yam P-range power amp. There was minimal or no obvious discontinuity in the listening spectrum. Sorry did not have the measuring equipment to do the full analysis. The bass units further supplemented the midrange tonality and air and sound stage depth. But more importantly the bottom end weight and impact was very good and the subjective speed was spot on with the rest of the drivers!
I overcame the lower end 'problem' with a simple electronic crossover and dipole stereo subwoofers which beautifully integrated with the YAms. With some experimenting, i found that the dipoles needed to be placed two feet to the front and side of the Yams. The best results were obtained with peerless long throw bass units and 400w plus Yam P-range power amp. There was minimal or no obvious discontinuity in the listening spectrum. Sorry did not have the measuring equipment to do the full analysis. The bass units further supplemented the midrange tonality and air and sound stage depth. But more importantly the bottom end weight and impact was very good and the subjective speed was spot on with the rest of the drivers!
For those wondering I have not had a chance to listen to or experiment further on the Yams for quite sometime now because of a house rebuild. I had started several projects with open baffle minimal crossover speakers and these are very promising indeed. Still have the stacked quad esl57's with Raven tweeters and dipole subwoofers..... will have to find time to try these out again once the 'hifi' room is complete and do comparisons with the Yams.
H3D
The Naim pre-amp that was used had been re-capped with better caps and the old pots had been replaced with resistor pots.
As far as I know the speakers were unmodified and visually in excellent condition.
Audiojoy
I will forward your comments re changing the Naim pre-amp to the owner of the speakers.
Regards
Jozua
The Naim pre-amp that was used had been re-capped with better caps and the old pots had been replaced with resistor pots.
As far as I know the speakers were unmodified and visually in excellent condition.
Audiojoy
I will forward your comments re changing the Naim pre-amp to the owner of the speakers.
Regards
Jozua
These speakers certainly show up everything behind them, everything you can change in a system shows up the differences instantly, esp amps and source.
warts and all of the amplified signal can be heard in all there non-glory.
I have not matched mine to anything I would call pleasing yet, I need to invest alot to get a good match. They sound very hard at the moment but them lightning fast crashes from them drivers are enough to wow.
warts and all of the amplified signal can be heard in all there non-glory.
I have not matched mine to anything I would call pleasing yet, I need to invest alot to get a good match. They sound very hard at the moment but them lightning fast crashes from them drivers are enough to wow.
I for one would be very interested in seeing what can be done with the berrylium drivers. Earlier in the thread someone did make suggestions along these lines if i remember correctly.
To maximise tonal colours and in particular bring forth more naturalness to voices and remove that slight 'hardness' in the top range i used VHD carbon hybrid internal speaker cabling to good effect. Also the caps used in the crossover contribute significantly to the overal tone and warmth of the speakers.
To maximise tonal colours and in particular bring forth more naturalness to voices and remove that slight 'hardness' in the top range i used VHD carbon hybrid internal speaker cabling to good effect. Also the caps used in the crossover contribute significantly to the overal tone and warmth of the speakers.
I've never found the NS-1000M to sound hard or bright. If they sound screamy or have sharp peaks in their response it may be an indicator to a problem. Considering how many replacement drivers were bought by owners over the years it would be a safe assumption the pair you have heard have an internal problem from previous use, the gear or media was not satisfactory, or you may have a preference to a sound other than a relatively flat response (many individuals do). The set I have tested never seen over a few Watts in their life so that may play a part in their excellent performance and technical consistency.
Subjective sound wise, I don't draw any attention to them yet each person who has listened to them among other loudspeakers pointed them out and has said they're the most realistic sounding and clearest speakers they have ever heard. They've made for some interesting A/B/C comparisons.
Subjective sound wise, I don't draw any attention to them yet each person who has listened to them among other loudspeakers pointed them out and has said they're the most realistic sounding and clearest speakers they have ever heard. They've made for some interesting A/B/C comparisons.
Kouiky
I fully understand that some in time one develops a certain affinity for certain equipment. I for one enjoy tweaking old equipment with better replacement parts and in most instances it usually seems to sounds better afterwards. In fact I am sometimes stunned by how good old equipment can really sound. Finding these hidden treasures is what DIY audio is about.
However one needs to be realistic. Technology has moved on and 20 years down the line most audio equipment is simply better. One simply needs to make that mind shift- that is if your pocket can afford it.
Jozua
I fully understand that some in time one develops a certain affinity for certain equipment. I for one enjoy tweaking old equipment with better replacement parts and in most instances it usually seems to sounds better afterwards. In fact I am sometimes stunned by how good old equipment can really sound. Finding these hidden treasures is what DIY audio is about.
However one needs to be realistic. Technology has moved on and 20 years down the line most audio equipment is simply better. One simply needs to make that mind shift- that is if your pocket can afford it.
Jozua