Hello
We are used to Linn topology amp, LTP input, push-pull output, that was my usual diy amps. And I was sure that quasi output, SE output, and single transistors inputs was "old things", but I've change my mind since few months.
And yes, specs do not allways correlated with the sound quality.
Talking about specs correlation with the sound quality.
Few day ago I've buy for very cheap a Cec-880CD cd player, and at home I opened it to see what inside, oops, it was an unknow dac; a LC7881, looking for specs I found few, this chip do have a .05% thd at 0db output and 92db sn ratio, wen I saw that I say "goosh a cheap dac" ... But I've decide to give a try to that cd player, it was sounding very good, I was surprise even wen I compared it to my Adcom GCD-600 cd player and Denon DCM-420. I've not alway did buy good cd players, I remember a Sony with very nice specs who was sound so bad bad bad.
So it was showing me again that specs are not allways correlated with the sound quality.
But I should say that the amp sound quality are more important than the rest of the sound system. You could have a superb cd player and high-end loudspeakers, but if the amps are not very good you will lost most of the sound definition and soundstage, and even with changing the cd player and loudspeakers for better will just give a bit more sound quality. The amp have to deal with a loudspeaker load and most of the times the nice sine-waves thd figures and good stability will go worse or even bad wen dealing with most real musical signal and real life load.
Bye
Gaetan
We are used to Linn topology amp, LTP input, push-pull output, that was my usual diy amps. And I was sure that quasi output, SE output, and single transistors inputs was "old things", but I've change my mind since few months.
And yes, specs do not allways correlated with the sound quality.
Talking about specs correlation with the sound quality.
Few day ago I've buy for very cheap a Cec-880CD cd player, and at home I opened it to see what inside, oops, it was an unknow dac; a LC7881, looking for specs I found few, this chip do have a .05% thd at 0db output and 92db sn ratio, wen I saw that I say "goosh a cheap dac" ... But I've decide to give a try to that cd player, it was sounding very good, I was surprise even wen I compared it to my Adcom GCD-600 cd player and Denon DCM-420. I've not alway did buy good cd players, I remember a Sony with very nice specs who was sound so bad bad bad.
So it was showing me again that specs are not allways correlated with the sound quality.
But I should say that the amp sound quality are more important than the rest of the sound system. You could have a superb cd player and high-end loudspeakers, but if the amps are not very good you will lost most of the sound definition and soundstage, and even with changing the cd player and loudspeakers for better will just give a bit more sound quality. The amp have to deal with a loudspeaker load and most of the times the nice sine-waves thd figures and good stability will go worse or even bad wen dealing with most real musical signal and real life load.
Bye
Gaetan
Last edited:
Hi Telstar,
That is just the point. No matter what one publishes in the form of a schematic, there will be those who agree and others that disagree and someone will always make it better, or diffenrent and the whole process repeats itself over and over.
Let us just think about different brands of petrol, which one is better. Each one offers some marketing hype that his additive is the best since crude was first discovered.
There are specifications and tests, but it remains just, that petrol. some will prefer BP while others prefer SHELL or watever else is on the market. We cannot even say the one tastes better than the other.
Publishing the formula of the stuff that comes out of the ground makes no difference.
You may even have noticed that one refineray refines for several brands and what goes into the road tanker is the same for all the brands. The only difference is that each brand adds a cupfull of its magic muti per 22 000 liters and that makes it the brand.
Does one cup of magic make it better than another brand? Most unlikely. Do you believe in brand buying, probably yes. Why simply because of marketing one can make the public believe anything because the public wants to believe that they have the best available.
In the esoteric audio world it become even worse, the more expensive something is the better it must be, take a look at this site and make up your mind whether anything here is better than anything else besides its price tag. Take a look here HigherFi - Worlds Best HiFi High-End Speakers and Audio
That is just the point. No matter what one publishes in the form of a schematic, there will be those who agree and others that disagree and someone will always make it better, or diffenrent and the whole process repeats itself over and over.
Let us just think about different brands of petrol, which one is better. Each one offers some marketing hype that his additive is the best since crude was first discovered.
There are specifications and tests, but it remains just, that petrol. some will prefer BP while others prefer SHELL or watever else is on the market. We cannot even say the one tastes better than the other.
Publishing the formula of the stuff that comes out of the ground makes no difference.
You may even have noticed that one refineray refines for several brands and what goes into the road tanker is the same for all the brands. The only difference is that each brand adds a cupfull of its magic muti per 22 000 liters and that makes it the brand.
Does one cup of magic make it better than another brand? Most unlikely. Do you believe in brand buying, probably yes. Why simply because of marketing one can make the public believe anything because the public wants to believe that they have the best available.
In the esoteric audio world it become even worse, the more expensive something is the better it must be, take a look at this site and make up your mind whether anything here is better than anything else besides its price tag. Take a look here HigherFi - Worlds Best HiFi High-End Speakers and Audio
Member
Joined 2009
Paid Member
I have tried full Sziklai. It has a very clean sound. But not good for continuous long time listening. Darlington pair worked as good as Sziklai. But still the sound was not very catching. QC so far is my favorite config for natural and neutral sound. Neither screaming, nor murmuring. Plain flat response.
Just finished this QC amp. It sounds best among my class-AB amps and I would go as far as to say that it beats my LM3886 in sonic performance. With 200mA Iq it is thermally very stable and no Oscillation anywhere any time. Clipping performance is almost perfect.
Just finished this QC amp. It sounds best among my class-AB amps and I would go as far as to say that it beats my LM3886 in sonic performance. With 200mA Iq it is thermally very stable and no Oscillation anywhere any time. Clipping performance is almost perfect.
Attachments
Member
Joined 2009
Paid Member
Shaan, I'm thinking that you have reached the Black Belt of audio design now - when most of us are busy simulating and our egos are busy looking for something novel to publish in the Forum just for the sake of it - you have a simple design that sounds good and doesn't need to be messed with !
I'm still an Orange Belt
Shaan,
you have a nice simple design and obviously it works for you. Thank you for sharing it with the community. It is fortunate or unfortunate that when you plublish your design it will be critisized and many members would give advice whether needed or not. Do not be discouraged, remeber it is your design and it is suitable for your tastes and you do not have to pay any heed to any advice or critisism.
On the other hand it is not bad to accept some input from other members, you may try it and make improvements or it makes the design worse.
Good or bad advice should be recorded anyway so that you next design could be an improvemnt on your last, whether it be reliability, ruggedness or in performance.
Kind regards
Nico
you have a nice simple design and obviously it works for you. Thank you for sharing it with the community. It is fortunate or unfortunate that when you plublish your design it will be critisized and many members would give advice whether needed or not. Do not be discouraged, remeber it is your design and it is suitable for your tastes and you do not have to pay any heed to any advice or critisism.
On the other hand it is not bad to accept some input from other members, you may try it and make improvements or it makes the design worse.
Good or bad advice should be recorded anyway so that you next design could be an improvemnt on your last, whether it be reliability, ruggedness or in performance.
Kind regards
Nico
Shaan,
If someone praised you for your circuit, and then 'sold' you an improvement which actually did improve the sound, would you be pleased?
If not, make no further changes, it's a good circuit. But if yes, consider posts #45, #46, #47 and #51. They are all excellent points.
Nico is 100% right, and thank you for sharing your design. But even if something is exceptional, you can normally make it better still. The only obstacle is our own ego.
Cheers,
Hugh
If someone praised you for your circuit, and then 'sold' you an improvement which actually did improve the sound, would you be pleased?
If not, make no further changes, it's a good circuit. But if yes, consider posts #45, #46, #47 and #51. They are all excellent points.
Nico is 100% right, and thank you for sharing your design. But even if something is exceptional, you can normally make it better still. The only obstacle is our own ego.
Cheers,
Hugh
I wanted it to work from the very first time I assemble it. So it did. However I agree with you on the matter that it would be fun if it didn't. I could open a new thread and more talking to the fine experts here always ready to help. They do help.
thanks
Thanks for the kind words. I am NOT a designer. I added some well-known spices into an existing amp schematic which lacked some robustness and simulated it purely out of curiosity. It seemed like a workable one. Off the table I assembled it. It worked. I already have my great chipamp for the sub. Comparing the sound output of both I thought this circuit sounds way better. What's left is reliability/ruggedness test. Yup I have plans to run it in full power initially into resistive load and then my sub.
I don't want praise. All I did was showing what I use. I never buy any pre-assembled audio gear thanks to you, bigun, event horizon and many other kind hearted experts in diyAudio. More fun from less bucks. I already said the circuit sounds wayyy better than 3886, to my ears.
Thanks for the second paragraph. I think the same. I have this thread subscribed and I sure will come back if there is a problem. I love QC.
Lastly, Apologies for the potentially rude words. I am learning and will continue to do so. Thanks for being nice with me.
Last edited:
All this attention. I never thought.... anyway I think I sound best
More seriously, it surely depends on the whole design including the layout of the PCB and case internals, not to mention the power supply and quality of components and the final setup (voltages, bias). So in short too many factors to make a generic statement.
I would have thought though that a well designed complementary using todays "audio class" complementary devices would be hard to beat. In terms of listening, that's up to the individual.
For me the power capability (and comfort) of an all N-channel Mosfet output stage is just awesome. Listening to some of my amps and other equally rated complementary amps I find it too close to call.
Cheers
Quasi
More seriously, it surely depends on the whole design including the layout of the PCB and case internals, not to mention the power supply and quality of components and the final setup (voltages, bias). So in short too many factors to make a generic statement.
I would have thought though that a well designed complementary using todays "audio class" complementary devices would be hard to beat. In terms of listening, that's up to the individual.
For me the power capability (and comfort) of an all N-channel Mosfet output stage is just awesome. Listening to some of my amps and other equally rated complementary amps I find it too close to call.
Cheers
Quasi
Hi Quasi,
trust me your NMOS 350/500 design kick out of the job a lot of commercial PA Class D Amps ...no way...class D Amps sound worse compare to NMOS
and very hard to find commercial PA and Hi-FI BJT Amps with similar finest sound
NMOS produce with +/-100 V eartquake in bass and I can get a lot of more bass, but 800 - 1000 USD PA Class D clips .... you cant feel similar strong bass in your body
bad thing is big heat in NMOS ....Class H NMOS would be big improvement
thank you for share your knowledge with us, but Im a little worry,... because you dont support new ideas / improvements for NMOS like Class H Step driver and bootstrap to increase efficiency
regards
I think Shaan is doing okay and he has built a simple working amp from his simulation. I also think that the advice given has made him realise that there is room for improvement and that he probably will make a few changes, but like every other DIYer, he is going to listen to his creation for a while before messing with it.
Once the box is closed you are hard pushed to open it and maybe stuff it up, but he will start a new project with all your comments in mind and we will see him here again offering some of his projects I am shure.
Good luck Shaan.
Once the box is closed you are hard pushed to open it and maybe stuff it up, but he will start a new project with all your comments in mind and we will see him here again offering some of his projects I am shure.
Good luck Shaan.