Thanks Arne K
I am happy to see there are absolutely no similarities between the LClock XO 3 and KC 7.
However there are similarities with KC7 and our LClock 2, see photo. The TL431 based series regulator is on both clocks. Our design is from 1998. Who copied who?
Today we use a voltage regulator with around 10 times lower noise than the TL431.
Also we use a 5 GHz (UHF tuner) bipolar transistor for our Collpitts oscillator, wheras KC7 uses a FET.
The comparator in the KC7 is also not the same. We use a single supply ground refencing type. And to minimize digital noise coming in from the CD / DVD layer, we also use a high speed logic buffer AFTER the comparator. Each stage of our clock has it's own separate power regulator. The power regulator is filtered with a Black gate NX Hi-Q capacitor, we all know those are good! Take a look at the photos of our XO 3 on www.lcaudio.com, you can see all of this.....
We have support circuits for the clock to be trouble free installed:
3 / 5 V setting, Fast Startup circuit, Output disable function, to avoid burning the control chip of a DVD player going into Standby.
Other clocks would continue to send a clock signal into the supply less chip, which will at some point burn it's input. An XO 3 also goes in standby with the DVD player.
We only use single supply as can be found in any CD / DVD player. No requirement for + and - supply. Lastly our 4 layer circuit board improves noise figures of the oscillator significantly.
So i guess nobody can rightfully claim that our XO 3 is a copy of the KC7. (And Jocko: i need not pay for anybody else's work )
All the best!
I am happy to see there are absolutely no similarities between the LClock XO 3 and KC 7.
However there are similarities with KC7 and our LClock 2, see photo. The TL431 based series regulator is on both clocks. Our design is from 1998. Who copied who?
Today we use a voltage regulator with around 10 times lower noise than the TL431.Also we use a 5 GHz (UHF tuner) bipolar transistor for our Collpitts oscillator, wheras KC7 uses a FET.
The comparator in the KC7 is also not the same. We use a single supply ground refencing type. And to minimize digital noise coming in from the CD / DVD layer, we also use a high speed logic buffer AFTER the comparator. Each stage of our clock has it's own separate power regulator. The power regulator is filtered with a Black gate NX Hi-Q capacitor, we all know those are good! Take a look at the photos of our XO 3 on www.lcaudio.com, you can see all of this.....
We have support circuits for the clock to be trouble free installed:
3 / 5 V setting, Fast Startup circuit, Output disable function, to avoid burning the control chip of a DVD player going into Standby.
Other clocks would continue to send a clock signal into the supply less chip, which will at some point burn it's input. An XO 3 also goes in standby with the DVD player.
We only use single supply as can be found in any CD / DVD player. No requirement for + and - supply. Lastly our 4 layer circuit board improves noise figures of the oscillator significantly.
So i guess nobody can rightfully claim that our XO 3 is a copy of the KC7. (And Jocko: i need not pay for anybody else's work
)All the best!
Attachments
I think you're missing the point. The KC schematic is free whereas yours is not. Understandably, you seek to make a profit and Elso does not. So, it does not matter who copied who because there is no profit to be made on Elso's part. If he DID seek to make a profit with a design based on your clock, then there would be a problem.
This is DIY. not business.
We could all learn a lesson from Nelson Pass.
Headshot
Check again, all our schematics are free and available on our website for DIY users.
In the area of Clocks however we have seen in the past however that other people have used our solutions for commercial purposes.
I have nothing against people making profits. As long as they also put in their own work.
This is why we don't publish schematics for this particular product.
And the argument that ELSO is not making profit (or trying to) .. i seriously doubt that is right. But it kind of proves the point that i was trying to make earlier.
Check again, all our schematics are free and available on our website for DIY users.
In the area of Clocks however we have seen in the past however that other people have used our solutions for commercial purposes.
I have nothing against people making profits. As long as they also put in their own work.
This is why we don't publish schematics for this particular product.
And the argument that ELSO is not making profit (or trying to) .. i seriously doubt that is right. But it kind of proves the point that i was trying to make earlier.
The Who Copied Who bit was just a reply to that user who wrongfully assumed that our LClock XO 3 is a copy of KC 7. Nothing could be more wrong.
Not a hit at all diy'ers copying professional companies solutions for their own purposes. This we have nothing objections to. Why am i saying the same over and over again?
Not a hit at all diy'ers copying professional companies solutions for their own purposes. This we have nothing objections to. Why am i saying the same over and over again?
With respect to Nelson Pass, i could'nt agree more with you.
He is in many ways the father of DIY audio, with an attitude that only deserves the deepest respect.
He makes and has made fantastic and innovative solutions in the past and now. Also when he was in Threshold, those amplifiers were at that time (and still 30 years later) some of the best ever concieved!
In my view Nelson Pass is an incredible talent, and the man in this business that everybody knows and respects!
And you are right, a man like Nelson Pass we can all learn a lesson from!
Lars Clausen
He is in many ways the father of DIY audio, with an attitude that only deserves the deepest respect.
He makes and has made fantastic and innovative solutions in the past and now. Also when he was in Threshold, those amplifiers were at that time (and still 30 years later) some of the best ever concieved!
In my view Nelson Pass is an incredible talent, and the man in this business that everybody knows and respects!
And you are right, a man like Nelson Pass we can all learn a lesson from!
Lars Clausen
Talking to me?????
If thats
Hi LCAudio,
Are you refering to me?????????
Apparently you never make mistakes!
The 3 is next to the 2 on my notebook.
And beside that I have dyslexia. Is that a reason to talk about an other forum member by calling him that user cause I was the one that wrote XO3.
If I made a mistake I appologize for that.
But don't you ever call me that user again!
I wish you a nice day Mr. LCAudio.
Audiofanatic
If thats
Hi LCAudio,
Are you refering to me?????????
Apparently you never make mistakes!
The 3 is next to the 2 on my notebook.
And beside that I have dyslexia. Is that a reason to talk about an other forum member by calling him that user cause I was the one that wrote XO3.
If I made a mistake I appologize for that.
But don't you ever call me that user again!
I wish you a nice day Mr. LCAudio.
Audiofanatic
I found a Japanes web site that seems to be selling a cryoed Kwak Clock
soundden.com
Of interest might be the scope shots comparing the KC ver.? to the Lclock XO2
below is a screen capture.
hope this helps
regards James
soundden.com
Of interest might be the scope shots comparing the KC ver.? to the Lclock XO2
below is a screen capture.
hope this helps
regards James
Attachments
tvi said:
Hi
This does only learn about rise time (assumed scope and probe are fast enough) and tells us the output impedance of LC is symmetrical and the KC not.
Jitter in the range of interest cannot be measured with an oscilloscope.
Elso: Time for your legal department to get into action ?
all the best
Guido
Lars Clausen said:Guido i don't think it's illegal to express ones doubt about the correctness of someone else's assumption.
Have a nice day ..
Hi Lars
Please help me a little by being more specific, having a hard time understanding what you mean.
Yes, nice day, but too short to get clocks to custyomers and new designs to be industrialised.....
best regards
Hey Chill Out you guys,
The dumb one here is me..... I shouldn't have started a thread for an opinion on clocks.........
Seriously though, how do we really know who truly invented what, is anyone losing a real livliehood here? When you don't have enough money for your next meal then it's time to get concerned... not before.
I can see the havoc that could be caused by pepole plugging their own products, but must we jump down everyone's throat for saying something. Surley Lars has some good to do for this forum, he seems to get so much animosity, it's a wonder he posts again.
By the way I've just ordered a KC7, so I'm not defending Lars out of commercial loyalty........
Everyone has knowledge that is unique to them, let's not drive people away with harsh words.......
Thanks
Raja
The dumb one here is me..... I shouldn't have started a thread for an opinion on clocks.........
Seriously though, how do we really know who truly invented what, is anyone losing a real livliehood here? When you don't have enough money for your next meal then it's time to get concerned... not before.
I can see the havoc that could be caused by pepole plugging their own products, but must we jump down everyone's throat for saying something. Surley Lars has some good to do for this forum, he seems to get so much animosity, it's a wonder he posts again.
By the way I've just ordered a KC7, so I'm not defending Lars out of commercial loyalty........
Everyone has knowledge that is unique to them, let's not drive people away with harsh words.......
Thanks
Raja
Supposed to work that way......
Too bad we have more than one guy here who gather information from the rest of us, and then try to turn it into something that thet can sell to us.
And then there are some who only seem to want to talk about themselves, and their wares.
Sometimes they do both. Shamelessly, in some cases. Really annoying.
But, in fairness, these guys do it in the open. There are less reputable fellows who ask via e-mail for all one's secret circuits, all the while claiming to be your "DIY buddy". And these guys clearly intend to make it into something commercial.
Sorry, I have no patience for either camp anymore.
Jocko
Too bad we have more than one guy here who gather information from the rest of us, and then try to turn it into something that thet can sell to us.
And then there are some who only seem to want to talk about themselves, and their wares.
Sometimes they do both. Shamelessly, in some cases. Really annoying.
But, in fairness, these guys do it in the open. There are less reputable fellows who ask via e-mail for all one's secret circuits, all the while claiming to be your "DIY buddy". And these guys clearly intend to make it into something commercial.
Sorry, I have no patience for either camp anymore.
Jocko
The simple solution is not to give away information that you aren't prepared to lose, if someone requests specific information ignore them... easy. It's no different on this forum than any other aspect of life. And none of us are under any obligation to buy anything from anyone.
We all learn from and are influenced by other peoples designs and ideas, there's always a possibility that these ideas will find their way into commercial designs. It's upto everyone to protect their own intellectual property.
We all learn from and are influenced by other peoples designs and ideas, there's always a possibility that these ideas will find their way into commercial designs. It's upto everyone to protect their own intellectual property.
Hi Guys
Hello Raja, and others,
Regarding the Clocks, I just want to say, that I realy apriciate the time and effort and knowhow of forum members like Mr. Pass, Peter Daniel, Elso Kwak, Jocko Homo, Walt Jung, Jan Didden and all the other guys that I didn't mention, who sheard their designes without asking a dime for it.
To all those forum members, I realy want to say, thanks for everything you've given us on this forum and personaly. I've learned a lot frome each one of you. This is a great forum but unfortunatly, not for me to continue like this.
I apologize to anyone if I step on his/her toos, it wasn't my intention to create a personal war on this tremendus forum.
I wish you all, the best of luck and hope some day to be back with you genuine DIYAudio lovers.
Thanks to all of you who are dear to me. Starting with Nelson Pass and ending with all my fellow dutch members. I'll miss you guys. Thanks and keep on the good work!
Sincerely,
Audiofanatic
Hello Raja, and others,
Regarding the Clocks, I just want to say, that I realy apriciate the time and effort and knowhow of forum members like Mr. Pass, Peter Daniel, Elso Kwak, Jocko Homo, Walt Jung, Jan Didden and all the other guys that I didn't mention, who sheard their designes without asking a dime for it.
To all those forum members, I realy want to say, thanks for everything you've given us on this forum and personaly. I've learned a lot frome each one of you. This is a great forum but unfortunatly, not for me to continue like this.
I apologize to anyone if I step on his/her toos, it wasn't my intention to create a personal war on this tremendus forum.
I wish you all, the best of luck and hope some day to be back with you genuine DIYAudio lovers.
Thanks to all of you who are dear to me. Starting with Nelson Pass and ending with all my fellow dutch members. I'll miss you guys. Thanks and keep on the good work!
Sincerely,
Audiofanatic
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