Re: Which clock to choose
Hi Jesús,
When comparing XO's, TCXO's and OCXO's the OCXO's have generally the lowest (best) jitterspecs. I don't know why. They are also the most expensive of the three kinds.
See also this thread, two years ago:
http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?forum=tweaks&n=40817&highlight=elso+terry&r=&session=
Jesús Puerto said:
Hi Jesús,
When comparing XO's, TCXO's and OCXO's the OCXO's have generally the lowest (best) jitterspecs. I don't know why. They are also the most expensive of the three kinds.
See also this thread, two years ago:
http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?forum=tweaks&n=40817&highlight=elso+terry&r=&session=
Re: Re: Which clock to choose
When comparing XO's, TCXO's and OCXO's the OCXO's have generally the lowest (best) jitterspecs.
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We seem to discuss XOs as though they are solely responsible for jitter and sonics. Not so, the PS, signal path and the digital procressor all play their parts.
I don't believe we can specify a particular XO as sounding best in isolation.
When comparing XO's, TCXO's and OCXO's the OCXO's have generally the lowest (best) jitterspecs.
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We seem to discuss XOs as though they are solely responsible for jitter and sonics. Not so, the PS, signal path and the digital procressor all play their parts.
I don't believe we can specify a particular XO as sounding best in isolation.
Clock and more Clock
Hi fmack,
The first step is that you controler the time
whem more precision are you time the rest of your equipament ´ll working better.
We assume that the power suply is ideal
ok and after we study another factors for
example the line-widh chage, layer change
a gap in return-path plane, a connector a
branch,tee, or stub, the end of the net, in pcb board and etc.....
Jesús
Hi fmack,
The first step is that you controler the time
whem more precision are you time the rest of your equipament ´ll working better.
We assume that the power suply is ideal
ok and after we study another factors for
example the line-widh chage, layer change
a gap in return-path plane, a connector a
branch,tee, or stub, the end of the net, in pcb board and etc.....
Jesús
Re: Clock and more Clock
Hola !
Be careful with assumptions on power supplies.......
I myself always meaure on them, using a 50dB low noise pre amp (1 nV / SqrrtHz) in front of my HP3580a or AP one.
Fred is right, one should define conditions when comparing oscillators (supply, load, that sort of thing)
By the way, your design for CD player looks awsome !!
regards
Jesús Puerto said:
Hola !
Be careful with assumptions on power supplies.......
I myself always meaure on them, using a 50dB low noise pre amp (1 nV / SqrrtHz) in front of my HP3580a or AP one.
Fred is right, one should define conditions when comparing oscillators (supply, load, that sort of thing)
By the way, your design for CD player looks awsome !!
regards
Clock and more Clock
Hi Guido,
Thanks for your opinion about my CD,
Yes you are right, about the power supply
I was listened D/A concertes with battery
this convert in concret the I/V was disigner for my friend Erno Borbely, all fet it´s working in clase A with the teflon pcb and the first type of component, the sound was extraordinary.
The bettery is a good ideal in power supply, becouse you don´t have problems
with the electric red and the 60HZ or after the rectifier 120Hz these frecuencys aren´t good for the equipament you know. with the problem of wires and return of grounds .
But now We are concentrated the dialoge
in the Time domaind, after we can dialoge
about the rest of the components.
Un Abrazo.
Jesús
Hi Guido,
Thanks for your opinion about my CD,
Yes you are right, about the power supply
I was listened D/A concertes with battery
this convert in concret the I/V was disigner for my friend Erno Borbely, all fet it´s working in clase A with the teflon pcb and the first type of component, the sound was extraordinary.
The bettery is a good ideal in power supply, becouse you don´t have problems
with the electric red and the 60HZ or after the rectifier 120Hz these frecuencys aren´t good for the equipament you know. with the problem of wires and return of grounds .
But now We are concentrated the dialoge
in the Time domaind, after we can dialoge
about the rest of the components.
Un Abrazo.
Jesús
Audiofanatic
Just a comment on your claim that our XO 3 is a copy of the KC7.
On what do you base this?
The last time i looked at a KC schematic it looked like the LClock we did 6-7 years ago. I don't remember the version but the TL431 based voltage regulator was exactly the same, and oscillator was the standard parallel Collpitts type we also used at that time. Today we have moved on lightyears compared to that design, so i don't see how your claim is possibly founded? Please tell me.
We have nothing against DIY'ers using our work building instructions for installing clocks. However it is a little frustrating to spend 100's of hours developing online support just to see that - (yes we do sell a lot of LClocks) - some kitchen table producers abuse our work to make profit. And i really don't understand why the users of this discussion board accept these producers who ONLY market their stuff on discussion boards, and have NO homepage of their own. Is a thin shell of 'non profit spirit' really enough to disguise the true nature of this kind of business?
All the clocks you see mentioned on this discussion board (and other boards as well) are sold, - some as PCB's and parts others as ready to install units. Money is made. Yes maybe some other clocks are cheaper than ours, but i can assure you that this is only because cheaper parts are used, single or dual side PCB's, less installation support is available, for these products.
It is easy to construct a clock circuit. Anybody can do it, and in fact we give (and have given for 5 years now) the place to find a good recipee, at the NARLL compendium, published by this organisation: http://www.arrl.org/)
It is also (very) easy to go out on any discussion board and claim that the clock you just put together is better than anybody else's clock. Anybody can do that as well.
However it took me 7 years to develope the LClock to the performance level that it has now, so i am not really worried that our competitor's clocks are as good as the XO3.
So i can only encourage the ones of you out there who are looking to buy a clock:
Don't believe anything you hear on free discussion boards. Not everybody in here are idealistic non-profit guys who give you free advice.
Be critical with the performance, and try out several clocks before you spend money! You CAN hear the difference of good and poor clocks: any day of the week!
All the best from
Lars Clausen
Just a comment on your claim that our XO 3 is a copy of the KC7.
On what do you base this?
The last time i looked at a KC schematic it looked like the LClock we did 6-7 years ago. I don't remember the version but the TL431 based voltage regulator was exactly the same, and oscillator was the standard parallel Collpitts type we also used at that time. Today we have moved on lightyears compared to that design, so i don't see how your claim is possibly founded? Please tell me.
We have nothing against DIY'ers using our work building instructions for installing clocks. However it is a little frustrating to spend 100's of hours developing online support just to see that - (yes we do sell a lot of LClocks) - some kitchen table producers abuse our work to make profit. And i really don't understand why the users of this discussion board accept these producers who ONLY market their stuff on discussion boards, and have NO homepage of their own. Is a thin shell of 'non profit spirit' really enough to disguise the true nature of this kind of business?
All the clocks you see mentioned on this discussion board (and other boards as well) are sold, - some as PCB's and parts others as ready to install units. Money is made. Yes maybe some other clocks are cheaper than ours, but i can assure you that this is only because cheaper parts are used, single or dual side PCB's, less installation support is available, for these products.
It is easy to construct a clock circuit. Anybody can do it, and in fact we give (and have given for 5 years now) the place to find a good recipee, at the NARLL compendium, published by this organisation: http://www.arrl.org/)
It is also (very) easy to go out on any discussion board and claim that the clock you just put together is better than anybody else's clock. Anybody can do that as well.
However it took me 7 years to develope the LClock to the performance level that it has now, so i am not really worried that our competitor's clocks are as good as the XO3.
So i can only encourage the ones of you out there who are looking to buy a clock:
Don't believe anything you hear on free discussion boards. Not everybody in here are idealistic non-profit guys who give you free advice.
Be critical with the performance, and try out several clocks before you spend money! You CAN hear the difference of good and poor clocks: any day of the week!
All the best from
Lars Clausen
On what do you base that?
Who abuses your work to make a profit?
Why does it matter that they ONLY market their stuff on discussion boards? And who do you mean? Elso?
Elso supplies a free diagram schematic of his stuff. And helps with countless upon countless of questions... no thin shell of non-profit spirit in his case ...it is ALL non-profit spirit...and if you can't build your own from the FREE schematic you can buy a kit from him...Did you want him to give that away for free?
What is the true nature of this business Lars? I'm very curious now.
Cheers,
Bas
LC Clock
Hello Mr. Clausen,
With all due respect sir, but do I sence a kind of proffit declining in your words? Ones again, I don't want to be rude, It's not that the KC-7 is XX times better or worce than yours, It's just that it's a DIY one and It's cheaper than most other Clocks and Elso Kwak does not hessitate to send you his schematic of the KC-7.
So I urge you to do the same if you claim that your clock is different and or better than the CK-7.
Best regards,
Audiofanatic
P.S. Have fun!
Hello Mr. Clausen,
With all due respect sir, but do I sence a kind of proffit declining in your words? Ones again, I don't want to be rude, It's not that the KC-7 is XX times better or worce than yours, It's just that it's a DIY one and It's cheaper than most other Clocks and Elso Kwak does not hessitate to send you his schematic of the KC-7.
So I urge you to do the same if you claim that your clock is different and or better than the CK-7.
Best regards,
Audiofanatic
P.S. Have fun!
I will be delighted to make a list of differences, if somebody tells me how to download this KC 7 schematic.....
Or mail it to me at : lc@lcaudio.dk
Or mail it to me at : lc@lcaudio.dk
If there were only true DIY'ers in here who's intention was only to make stuff for themselves, i would be more than happy to publish our schematics. (Exactly like we already publish most of our other schematics on our own website).
However there is also some people in here with commercial interests - our competitors - who i am sure would like to have a close look at my work. And i am sure that you will understand why i am reluctant to give them that chance.
All the best from Denmark
However there is also some people in here with commercial interests - our competitors - who i am sure would like to have a close look at my work. And i am sure that you will understand why i am reluctant to give them that chance.
All the best from Denmark
Re: Clock and more Clock
I'll think this is the right way to dealing with the jitter problem. Taking one step at the time.
The demands for the clock is pretty high, we should be able to hear jitter as low as 10ps so there must be focused on every aspect in the clock generation "problem"
Jesús Puerto said:
I'll think this is the right way to dealing with the jitter problem. Taking one step at the time.
The demands for the clock is pretty high, we should be able to hear jitter as low as 10ps so there must be focused on every aspect in the clock generation "problem"
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