Yes, thanks again. Sigh, I do read theory, usually instead of studying to keep up with my career. It just takes a long time to learn several new careers worth of information.
In any case, although some may frown on it, if I use digital room correction and have a pretty flat in room response, is there still much benefit to using a passive notch filter at the crossover?
In any case, although some may frown on it, if I use digital room correction and have a pretty flat in room response, is there still much benefit to using a passive notch filter at the crossover?
I am not so sensitive to equipment noise, maybe it is the evaporative cooler in the background, or the crying baby, or my aged ears...or more likely that I don't really know what noise comes from what.
I guess my question is: If I am already using digital room correction to attain a reasonably flat response through the majority of the speakers range, and most certainly over the frequencies you suggest for correction (2kHz-5kHz), and the drivers still make the offending noise I an griping about, would there be any hope that a parallel notch filter would help in the way I want, which is to eliminate the harsh overtone the thread started about. (run on sentences aside....) Or should I go back to the upstream side and start subbing components.
I guess my question is: If I am already using digital room correction to attain a reasonably flat response through the majority of the speakers range, and most certainly over the frequencies you suggest for correction (2kHz-5kHz), and the drivers still make the offending noise I an griping about, would there be any hope that a parallel notch filter would help in the way I want, which is to eliminate the harsh overtone the thread started about. (run on sentences aside....) Or should I go back to the upstream side and start subbing components.
Ok, I have an update. Which naturally, I don't understand at all.
I switched to a SS amp and the harsh sound was still there. In fact it was still there on three separate speakers and two differnet speaker cables.
So not the new DIY speakers, DIY speaker cables or my KT88 tube amp.
So, ignoring interconnects at the moment, I figured it was either my DAC (Red Wine, Isabellina) or my iMac.
The simplest next test was to plug in a cheap set of earbuds to the earphone jack of the iMac, so I did and the sound was fine!
Aha! Say I,"it must be the DAC, let me reconnect and hear it again"
So when I hook up the amp and speakers and start playing, before I turn up the volume on the amp, I hear the music playing softly in the background. D'oh, the iMac reset it's output when I plugged in the earbuds. No big deal. System Prefs --> sound--> reset output to USB DAC. Voila. But...
Go figure, now the sound is fine. No harshness at all. Sounds great. On all speakers. Somehow the problem is fixed, so there must have been a computer glitch, somewhere in the output settings that didn't repair with restarting or anything else.
Any ideas? Or should I leave well enough alone...
I am nervous that I am imagining this and when I go listen again, the problem will be back...
I switched to a SS amp and the harsh sound was still there. In fact it was still there on three separate speakers and two differnet speaker cables.
So not the new DIY speakers, DIY speaker cables or my KT88 tube amp.
So, ignoring interconnects at the moment, I figured it was either my DAC (Red Wine, Isabellina) or my iMac.
The simplest next test was to plug in a cheap set of earbuds to the earphone jack of the iMac, so I did and the sound was fine!
Aha! Say I,"it must be the DAC, let me reconnect and hear it again"
So when I hook up the amp and speakers and start playing, before I turn up the volume on the amp, I hear the music playing softly in the background. D'oh, the iMac reset it's output when I plugged in the earbuds. No big deal. System Prefs --> sound--> reset output to USB DAC. Voila. But...
Go figure, now the sound is fine. No harshness at all. Sounds great. On all speakers. Somehow the problem is fixed, so there must have been a computer glitch, somewhere in the output settings that didn't repair with restarting or anything else.
Any ideas? Or should I leave well enough alone...
I am nervous that I am imagining this and when I go listen again, the problem will be back...
It must be that only certain recordings made it stand out.
I have isolated it to the imac digital volume control, or whatever it is that an imac uses to set output.
With the imac volume slider set at 1/4 or below, it sounds fine, even at louder than listening volumes when cranked up using the amp volume control.
Interestingly, i did just change computes to an imac, from a mac mini. So the next step it to resurrect the mac mini, which does still work, and see if that is better. Didn't have the problem for three years with the mac mini, just thought the imac would be better.
So a question better for another forum, what the heck? Is this just a bad sound card on this imac, or are the older G4s better at digital sound output than the newer intel macs?
Also open to other thoughts, I know nothing about this side of things.
Hmm, shouldn't your iMac volume slider be at maximum and then you turn down the volume upstream? That's how I always do it (start out with full signal and turn it down at the end of the chain so you have less noise and more headroom).
In terms of computer audio glitching, it's common on non-Macs anyway. On my audio machine, if I'm scrolling a browser window, it can create noise on the USB DAC's output. Sometimes it just gradually gets noisy and I have to power down the DAC, then power it up again.
In terms of computer audio glitching, it's common on non-Macs anyway. On my audio machine, if I'm scrolling a browser window, it can create noise on the USB DAC's output. Sometimes it just gradually gets noisy and I have to power down the DAC, then power it up again.
That was my understanding too, hence my surprise at this situation.When I ran the older mac mini, I always used full or near full volume on the mac mini and adjusted with the amp volume control. I read somewhere that turning the digital volume down on the computer decreases the amount of information sent and therefore the fidelity, but I really have no clue. Regardless, If I have to use output from the computer at 1/4 or less, then I have to crank the volume on the amp higher. Maybe not an issue with the 96dB sensitive speakers and the 100W SS amp, but a problem when I use the 8W 300B...
You sure about this? I mean I view this set-up the same as setting a mixing board's or similar output to amp(s) with gain controls in that as you turn up the output and/or down the amp's gain you're decreasing its dynamic headroom, IOW making them an adjustable compressor, so you only turn down the amp's gain when it's playing too loud/clipping with the output signal dialed back to its minimum.
For sure, my crappy 2.1 computer system sounds by far the best when its and the Windoze media player's volume control is set to max and the volume is controlled by the SB Wave sound card's.
GM
Hi GM, oh I'm sure of nothing
But in the olden days, when we'd record tracks, we'd record very hot to tape to get better signal to noise (tape hiss being a constant), And then when you turn it down later in the signal chain, you'd be turning down the hiss and whatever other noise.And then later, when mixing, you would turn down the fader to whatever you wanted, and thus avoid clipping things (outboard reverb etc.) so there would be headroom for those devices. So I guess parts of the signal chain would gain headroom but I shouldn't think that equates to overall dynamic headroom necessarily (because we certainly used tape compression and outboard compression lots).
Back then, you'd have to make several passes when mixing down to DAT to see how hot you could go without clipping. On those old DAT's, when the signal was low, it sounded like bacon frying (e.g., when a cymbal decayed) so we tried to go as hot as possible. But sometimes the DAT would get to the CD factory and they said it clipped (the meters on our DAT decks would sometimes not catch a momentary clip).
So what I'm doing could be force of habit, and just plain wrong as well. Here's what I do: I set the audio player's software volume to max, the DAC's software volume at 0db, the pre-amp very hot, then the power amp pretty low (because it's the noisiest). I may be doing it wrong, that wouldn't surprise me at all
So the old mac mini works fine. I keep the mac volume slider maxed and adjust with the amp volume.
Check this out. Intel iMac audio issue with all sound using USB DAC | Computer Audiophile
Not an isolated problem. Sigh...
Check this out. Intel iMac audio issue with all sound using USB DAC | Computer Audiophile
Not an isolated problem. Sigh...
Which volume
One component may have better output than the other, that is, the simplest or cheapest design will usually be the one to keep the volume low. But the highest volume also puts the lowest resistance load on what feeds it, so we have a balance to maintain if the preceeding stage can't handle the low impedance. Thankfully standard levels are common today.
One component may have better output than the other, that is, the simplest or cheapest design will usually be the one to keep the volume low. But the highest volume also puts the lowest resistance load on what feeds it, so we have a balance to maintain if the preceeding stage can't handle the low impedance. Thankfully standard levels are common today.
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Same discussion on AudioCircle. Seems to be limited to Quad Core iMac and not all USB DACs.
dave
OK, not having had a computer audio system until recent years beyond the case's tweeter, wasn't aware of this or even that it was possible. I thought 'bits' were 'bits', so how do they get 'lost' at lower settings?
GM
Hi GM, oh I'm sure of nothing
Greets!
Well, maybe nothing audio.........
Anyway, you're talking about how to create a low noise recording of a live performance within the dynamic limitations of the signal chain whereas this is about reproducing one. Does it not seem reasonable then that the inverse is the best way to reproduce the product of your labors?
GM
The morel of the story is that if your DAC can handle 24 bits, up convert to 24 bits in your music player, run you music player volume to max (and the OS volume if still in play), set the volume on your (Pre)amp just a little louder than you can stand and then control the volume within the music player. You will never hear any degradation.
Bob
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