Thanks, done.
My Kef's are iq5's. No offense taken; that's one reason I'm here asking for advise on different speakers
One thing I don't like about the Kefs is that they don't have a sound that has a lot of air and ambiance; not sure if that is the coaxial tweeter not being allowed to reflect as much information? They do image fairly pinpoint but with not much air and space, but I really don't care if this is a bit blurrier if it had more space or size to the sound, or whatever I'm trying to say. Also, the speakers never disappear at all. The sound stage stays confined between them and you can hear sound coming directly from each speaker. Would a convential driver layout with narrow baffle help with these issues?
I've played with placement a lot; they are currently about 30" from back wall and at least a couple feet from the sides and roughly equilateral triangle , so I don't think placement is the issue
I have considered all of Zaph's designs. I figured the ZA5's weren't going to be as high-end of a sound as some others; it's good to hear otherwise. I hadn't seen that page w/ all the different designs. I'll take a good look at them.
Evan
My Kef's are iq5's. No offense taken; that's one reason I'm here asking for advise on different speakers
One thing I don't like about the Kefs is that they don't have a sound that has a lot of air and ambiance; not sure if that is the coaxial tweeter not being allowed to reflect as much information? They do image fairly pinpoint but with not much air and space, but I really don't care if this is a bit blurrier if it had more space or size to the sound, or whatever I'm trying to say. Also, the speakers never disappear at all. The sound stage stays confined between them and you can hear sound coming directly from each speaker. Would a convential driver layout with narrow baffle help with these issues?I've played with placement a lot; they are currently about 30" from back wall and at least a couple feet from the sides and roughly equilateral triangle , so I don't think placement is the issue
I have considered all of Zaph's designs. I figured the ZA5's weren't going to be as high-end of a sound as some others; it's good to hear otherwise. I hadn't seen that page w/ all the different designs. I'll take a good look at them.
Evan
The speaker you might want to look at in that general price range is the Zaph ZRT. Having worked with various drivers over the years, I would be much more inclined to use the ScanSpeak range. It's exteremly nice stuff.
There is also an option for a 2.5 way if you want to throw more money at the project. It gets expensive, but I would imagine that you would not have any need to change speakers for many years with the ZRT
There is also an option for a 2.5 way if you want to throw more money at the project. It gets expensive, but I would imagine that you would not have any need to change speakers for many years with the ZRT
6l6 is right about the zrt, revelator stuff is good.
Look at the cost though-
and again, the measurements.... whats all that extra money getting you? on paper, arguably not at all for the bass unit (-especially as you can have a mmtmm for half the money!), and a tiny difference in treble, almost entirely above 16khz which you (like most ppl) cant hear up to anyway!
its not that it isnt good, its just it depends on what that money means to you. My brother in law earns £100k + a year, he wouldn't stop to even ask the question- he would just buy both (+have me build them too!) I do a big project every 2 or 3 years, so it matters more to me.
Horses for courses!
The Madisound Speaker Store
Thats not to say that looks dont play a big part too of course. But don't forget... you arn't going to see that lovely magnet on the back of the revelator tweeter once its in!
http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/2.5-way-speaker-kits/zaph|audio-za5.5-tall-tower-2.5-way-pair/
Look at the cost though-
and again, the measurements.... whats all that extra money getting you? on paper, arguably not at all for the bass unit (-especially as you can have a mmtmm for half the money!), and a tiny difference in treble, almost entirely above 16khz which you (like most ppl) cant hear up to anyway!
its not that it isnt good, its just it depends on what that money means to you. My brother in law earns £100k + a year, he wouldn't stop to even ask the question- he would just buy both (+have me build them too!) I do a big project every 2 or 3 years, so it matters more to me.
Horses for courses!
The Madisound Speaker Store
Thats not to say that looks dont play a big part too of course. But don't forget... you arn't going to see that lovely magnet on the back of the revelator tweeter once its in!
http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/2.5-way-speaker-kits/zaph|audio-za5.5-tall-tower-2.5-way-pair/
Yes. there is no doubt. Personally I would most likely make the 2-way. But that's me.
I am not, just merely offering suggestions and options.
This is a journey that if you take, you will find that there are parts of it that must be done on faith - it's practically impossible to hear any of these designs beforehand, and so deciding what design to build comes down to a philosophical choice more than anything.
The thing is that the journey is more than half the fun. At the end, regardless of what you choose, you will have more knowledge and understanding of how this all works, what you like, and what you might do differently if you choose to continue in DIY.
You will also have an awesome pair of speakers.
Hi,
The problem is none of the above requirements can be discerned
by poring over the details of a DIY design and all of them are
dependent on the total system, not just the speakers.
It would be nice to have a system that is just "better" at everything,
but that is far easier said than done, and one really is just guessing.
In that vein my best guess is the sort of thing you should build is :
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/diy-sunflowers
One thing is for certain, they will sound very different to the KEF's,
and the Nomex 164's, they might be the right compromise for you.
As a design, I like it a lot, high value drivers, advanced development.
rgds, sreten.
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Hi,
Not this one so much as the bass end is not open baffle,
but all good speakers work best away from boundaries.
rgds, sreten.
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6L6-
I do really appreciate the suggestions. I've been researching different designs for maybe 6 months, so I've looked into all of these suggestions except the open baffles sreten linked. Even the two way is over my budget though. $900 has got to be the top end finished.
Sreten-
I'll check out the open baffles when I get back from dinner; my gf makes me leave the computer and do things with her occasionally. At a glance those look pretty great. I've played around with OB some any really liked the mid range but I had pretty much written them off for this project do to the width of them; racks of movies and cd's are in the corner behind one of the speakers. There is room to move them forward and back some; right now mine are a couple feet out.
Yeah, based on what I have gleaned from around the net, the price/performance ratio is one of the main reasons I had decided on the Nomex.
Evan
I do really appreciate the suggestions. I've been researching different designs for maybe 6 months, so I've looked into all of these suggestions except the open baffles sreten linked. Even the two way is over my budget though. $900 has got to be the top end finished.
Sreten-
I'll check out the open baffles when I get back from dinner; my gf makes me leave the computer and do things with her occasionally
. At a glance those look pretty great. I've played around with OB some any really liked the mid range but I had pretty much written them off for this project do to the width of them; racks of movies and cd's are in the corner behind one of the speakers. There is room to move them forward and back some; right now mine are a couple feet out. Yeah, based on what I have gleaned from around the net, the price/performance ratio is one of the main reasons I had decided on the Nomex.
Evan
I think it is worth your time to try to get a listen to speakers you want to build. People frequently have diy get togethers for just such a purpose. There is a lot to be gained from hearing different completed speakers in the same setting, speaking with others traveling the same path and asking the builders about the decision process that led them to where they are.
Keep your eye on any that may be in your area...or come to KY this coming weekend. There will be 14-16 people with speakers for a day of such...
Keep your eye on any that may be in your area...or come to KY this coming weekend.
There will be 14-16 people with speakers for a day of such...Thanks for the recommendation to listen to some diy speakers, but this would take a while to even be able to hear a few designs; there just isn't much in my area to listen to. Anyways, I'm going to just go ahead and take the plunge on the NOMEX 164. I think they will be nice either way and will be fun and not too difficult to build. I have gotten the price down a bit from my original figures due to some of the advice on here so it is a little easier to take a shot on them.
One question: would this work in place of the lower woofer 2.2mH 14AWG coil that Troels calls out? He said 15awg should work. The 2.2 P-core I was going to use is out of stock. The rest are to spec air coils. I don't know anything about the diff. cores.
15 AWG Steel Laminate Coils - Sledgehammer
Thanks
Evan
One question: would this work in place of the lower woofer 2.2mH 14AWG coil that Troels calls out? He said 15awg should work. The 2.2 P-core I was going to use is out of stock. The rest are to spec air coils. I don't know anything about the diff. cores.
15 AWG Steel Laminate Coils - Sledgehammer
Thanks
Evan
The short answer is yes...
You ask about 2.2 mH vs. 2.25 mH; the greater inductance moves the crossover point slightly lower. You can unwind some copper from the coil to reduce the inductance to a desired point. You should measure to stop at the right point.
You did not ask about the series resistance of R3011. 0.39 ohms vs. 0.162 DCR for the Sledgehammer. This reduction in series resistance allows more current to flow and increases the output slightly. If you unwind the coil you remove resistance...
So, for one of the woofers you will realize slightly greater output beginning at a slightly lower frequency. These things keep speaker builders up at night. It is also a common situation where compromises are made.
Do you see where this is going? You will have to decide what you want to do. Our need to know is what causes many of us to over-ANALyze these things.
The perfect speaker has yet to be designed, much less by committee over the internet. Thanks Ed, I did notice the lower resistance and assumed it would allow a little higher output. It should be fairly minor though, no? Most of the coils that I could get are a little off anyways. He calls out 14AWG, and 21AWG and mostly I could only find 15 and 20, so the dcr of these is off slightly too. He said those should be fine. I was mostly asking about the different inductance and the core vs air coil. I don't understand what the core changes.
Evan
Evan
By the way, the only other options I found are an air coil of 2.2 with a higher resistance of around .5 and a p-core that's out of stock 2.2 dcr of .20, both 15AWG. That is unless I want to spend $50 a piece, which I don't. Not sure if a lower or higher output would be better.
Anyways, thanks a lot for explaining what those values will do. Now I can at least make a somewhat informed decision. Really appreciated.
. Not sure if a lower or higher output would be better. Anyways, thanks a lot for explaining what those values will do. Now I can at least make a somewhat informed decision. Really appreciated.
Cored inductors reduce the number of turns necessary by increasing the effect of the field generated when a signal passes through the coils. This lowers the dc resistance and reduces cost vs an equivalent air-core part.
One trouble with cored inductors is that the cores can be fairly non linear so they introduce distortion. This isn't a problem with a decent cored inductor. The second problem is with core saturation, as the conductive core has a limited size, so too does it have a limit on the maximum field strength that it can cope with. As you increase the current through the device it becomes increasingly non linear and the inductance also drops off. Some core materials are far better then others, but once again, with a decent cored product this wont become an issue. The steel laminates at mad are more then adequate.
One trouble with cored inductors is that the cores can be fairly non linear so they introduce distortion. This isn't a problem with a decent cored inductor. The second problem is with core saturation, as the conductive core has a limited size, so too does it have a limit on the maximum field strength that it can cope with. As you increase the current through the device it becomes increasingly non linear and the inductance also drops off. Some core materials are far better then others, but once again, with a decent cored product this wont become an issue. The steel laminates at mad are more then adequate.
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