Ah there was an update of the 2003 old paper ? Ah yes you already said me iirc in an other thread :
Cyril Bateman's Capacitor Sound articles | Linear Audio NL (courtesey of Linear Audio)
That's not the plague, lol ! Yes as for a painting you can measure the color deepness better than the eyes : the machine doesn't say to you how to mix the colors to be nice at eyes !
I believe it's the same : even if the small variation can be measured, it is not said our conclusions about it are right : like the noise for instance ! Sometimes it's so low, than to have lower is not usefull : just pick the cap which gives the better result at ears !
A measurement is to check a rule, a paradigm ! If you don't know where or how to measure to have a predictable result, well it's dead ! And sometimes all the measurements are good enough, it's just a trade off between two caps which doesn't give the same result at ears (the small measured difference say maybe Nothing on how to choose it in your hifi).
Again, industries have not time to play with that : time is costly (as sourcing the commodities in a not global way : more suppliers = less margin, more hassle !)
Well you know it's like with DACs : take the Soekris R2R : measurement were good but it sounded like a crap, I solded mine after 10 hours ! Take a TotalDAC R2R with more carefully choosen parts : it sounds very good ! All the OEM boards of Soekris are tweaked by the way : Lampizator and others brands !
So if some are able to measure Something : they have a long experience... and before a measurement, one has to choose a cap : and this experience is a long one as well (I play with for more 20 years, loosed time, yes maybe as gardening, cooking, etc : just for the pleasure and my delicate ears !...... "I'M Spoke" (Star Trek convention)
Eldam not in psu but....
Nichicon Muse ES bipolar measured <-120dB THD <-140dB IMD
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/part...ipolar-caps-measured-120db-thd-140db-imd.html
Nichicon Muse ES bipolar measured <-120dB THD <-140dB IMD
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/part...ipolar-caps-measured-120db-thd-140db-imd.html
Yep, I use it as local decoupling, but it needs to be mixed with some others mattier caps with more body in the low : they are thin and too much tigty alone near an aop for instance. And even mixed they react differently in relation to the reservoir cap before at the main supply... Just did test some days ago with Pan FM & FC caps before (I have all the catalog !)
My Doug Self is full of it and I think the same, I will need when time to remove some ES because needs a better equilibrium at ears !
As for what they are made : in serie as DC cap : I'm not so happy with it alone and found the oldest one far better : (or maybe it is the aging) ! Ihmi in chemical : none has beaten the Black Gate N and even less in super E conf !
Ihmo the difference we hear when swapping caps are very far above the noise floor. Reducing the noie is surely mandatory but imho it's not the only factor to make an association of devices sounding right ! That's why : using the best caps every where as teflon for instance will just give a steril sound : Now maybe with a dsp id the noise floor was very low we could acheive the same, I don't know, but subjectivly there are so much factors : timing, average dynamic in different range of the listening frequency that's I find faster to play with passive parts if the design is good before to set up !
My Doug Self is full of it and I think the same, I will need when time to remove some ES because needs a better equilibrium at ears !
As for what they are made : in serie as DC cap : I'm not so happy with it alone and found the oldest one far better : (or maybe it is the aging) ! Ihmi in chemical : none has beaten the Black Gate N and even less in super E conf !
Ihmo the difference we hear when swapping caps are very far above the noise floor. Reducing the noie is surely mandatory but imho it's not the only factor to make an association of devices sounding right ! That's why : using the best caps every where as teflon for instance will just give a steril sound : Now maybe with a dsp id the noise floor was very low we could acheive the same, I don't know, but subjectivly there are so much factors : timing, average dynamic in different range of the listening frequency that's I find faster to play with passive parts if the design is good before to set up !
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Why is ES sounding thin to you Eldam ? I'm not getting any of it. Lol But about mixing your on the right track, lows aren't that great. I think the thinnest that your hearing is the utter transparency that this cap brings to the table. To me it sounds far better then KZ. Kz can sound a little upfront depending on circuit applications but it does win hands down on bass.
Cheers
Cheers
Yes odd : thin but punchy ! ..... bad repartition for my ears, of course all is about the whole hi fi, I'm not here to listen yours ! And we know each others it's not about ratings like TonyGee but more the right cap at the right place in a particular pcb in a particular hifi !
How to say it simply : ES sounds like a bipolar : very clean, but try the combo I talked to you : more like a 300B : even & odd harmonics together, you will hear forinstance more articulation in the low treble with less fatigue : TRY !
Well ES stays very high in my préférences.... but it's a little clinic where you know... at least this what I hear here (The "ir ir" is a starnge animal !)
How to say it simply : ES sounds like a bipolar : very clean, but try the combo I talked to you : more like a 300B : even & odd harmonics together, you will hear forinstance more articulation in the low treble with less fatigue : TRY !
Well ES stays very high in my préférences.... but it's a little clinic where you know... at least this what I hear here (The "ir ir" is a starnge animal !)
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I would like to express my disappointment with Tony Gee's ranking on caps and in particular on claritycap.
I have noticed that over the years claritycaps have never reached a value above 11
For example, MR was 11 and now is climbed to 10.5 and CMR 11, while more expensive and famous capacitors always increase their value...like mundorf...duelund...
I do not find any correspondence between the evaluations and the assigned score.
For 20 years i'm comparing capacitors, resistances and inductances.
For example, I compared the claritycap CMR against all the mundorf production and the CMRs were the best and a lot better than mundorf silver/oil that has 11 score.
Really strange.
I know it's also a matter of taste, but putting score 11 on the CMR is really scandalous, they deserve at least 12!
Maybe there are other interests in the game but I do not find the comparison impartial
I have noticed that over the years claritycaps have never reached a value above 11
For example, MR was 11 and now is climbed to 10.5 and CMR 11, while more expensive and famous capacitors always increase their value...like mundorf...duelund...
I do not find any correspondence between the evaluations and the assigned score.
For 20 years i'm comparing capacitors, resistances and inductances.
For example, I compared the claritycap CMR against all the mundorf production and the CMRs were the best and a lot better than mundorf silver/oil that has 11 score.
Really strange.
I know it's also a matter of taste, but putting score 11 on the CMR is really scandalous, they deserve at least 12!
Maybe there are other interests in the game but I do not find the comparison impartial
Hey Eldam, without wishing to wade into the subjective listening/psychoacoustic debate that appears periodically in these forums, I am just finishing up a Doug Self pre (a' la Karl Huff) which I stuffed with ES's according to the supplied BOM, and I would be very interested to hear your impressions of capacitor changes.
... it may be your tastes and speaker/filter perhaps ! I don't know about Clarity but for instance i found the Amphenol alu in oïl to sounds better than its 11- ! I surmise one cap may sometimes react better than a said better one in a particular circuit ! Try&error stays an important factor when you have parts choice on hands.
I'm trying to understand your post. Are you saying you compared the measurements (i.e. resistances and inductances) of the CC's to the Mundorf's? Do you think the CMR deserves a 12 based on those objective measurements or, based on subjective listening tests?
Please clarify. (no pun intended)
In fact you have understood perfectly
merely that tony gee ranking is unreliable, from my point of view.I'm trying to understand your post. Are you saying you compared the measurements (i.e. resistances and inductances) of the CC's to the Mundorf's? Do you think the CMR deserves a 12 based on those objective measurements or, based on subjective listening tests?
Please clarify. (no pun intended)
You didn't answer my questions! Of course Gee's ratings are un-reliable because there's no science to them other than anecdotal, totally subjective opinions.
Is your rating opinion based on subjective or objective assessments?
Was your subjective test done blind? If not, then your opinion isn't any more valid than Gee's.
Please share your expert engineer's test data and test methodology.
realy i don't know
yes, blind
i'm not expert, so if he want could answer himself to your question
To an extend that Tony Gee is as unreliable as you are; you have an opinion, he has an opinion. In the end it is a subjective matter, your opinion is just as unreliable.
From my experiences in capacitors, his observations are quite spot on. You have to put into thought that it is also an aspect of preference. Some people love transistor sound and DSP correction, Red Bull is a popular beverage as well.
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