pburke,
i just remembered that i saw some cornell-dubilier's at apex jr. they turned out to be 12,000uf 80v for $5 each. if i wanted to do cheap, that would be the way to go!
oh, keep in mind im wanting to do nichicon KG Gold series, not just standard ones. would those panasonics really compare at all? i thought the nichicon audio series were supposed to be better...
i just remembered that i saw some cornell-dubilier's at apex jr. they turned out to be 12,000uf 80v for $5 each. if i wanted to do cheap, that would be the way to go!
oh, keep in mind im wanting to do nichicon KG Gold series, not just standard ones. would those panasonics really compare at all? i thought the nichicon audio series were supposed to be better...
cowanrg said:
Iw as comparing Nichicon Muse KZ Gold with Panasonic FC caps, but again, only the lower voltages. Used in digital and analog regulated supplies, I can't tell much if any difference, while slapping an N series Blackgate in there always is an eye-opener.
I also never used any of the high voltage Panasonics I listed, so all this may be really for somebody else to judge who has actually built something with these larger caps.
Peter
cowanrg said:
that's the problem - there ain't any cheap 10uF poly caps out there worth putting in there.
A few Wima MKP10 at about 5uF or a pair of Auricaps may do, but even in that size you're spending $50 on the pair.
And - you still want good caps. There's a difference between bypassed junk and bypassed quality caps. Rise times, etc - there's more to good caps than ESR
Peter
cowanrg said:
Apex Jr. sells some surplus poly caps - I have the now sold-out 50uF version in my preamp and they are pretty darn nice. They 28uF version sells for $3.50
warning - those are big caps!
28uF 250VAC Met Poly Aerovox $3.50
http://www.apexjr.com/capacitorA.html
you can get the Auricaps another time.
mac said:
Bruno has said that bypassing of big caps is not needed because module itself has bypass caps. Anyway, i do not know if these bypass caps are good or not. I have tried 33uF polypropylenes parallel with Rifa PEH200 and did not notice any improvement. When i change Rifas to BHC T-network (no bypassig), improvement is Huge!
PS. Speakers are (also) Orions. Do you use "standard" Orions nowdays?
so lets see...
people seem to like nichicons, and say they are very good and sound great.
also, people say nichicons sound just as good as generics and dont sound all that great at all.
bypass caps are the way to go, even with cheap caps.
bypass caps only really help when used with nicer caps.
bypass caps dont do anything at all.
???
im going to go buy an amp instead
i understand the only way i could get something that would be gaurenteed to sound good would be to buy blackgates bypassed with auricaps. but if i had that kinda money, i wouldnt be doing DIY, now would i?
people seem to like nichicons, and say they are very good and sound great.
also, people say nichicons sound just as good as generics and dont sound all that great at all.
bypass caps are the way to go, even with cheap caps.
bypass caps only really help when used with nicer caps.
bypass caps dont do anything at all.
???
im going to go buy an amp instead
i understand the only way i could get something that would be gaurenteed to sound good would be to buy blackgates bypassed with auricaps. but if i had that kinda money, i wouldnt be doing DIY, now would i?
cowanrg said:so lets see...
people seem to like nichicons, and say they are very good and sound great.
also, people say nichicons sound just as good as generics and dont sound all that great at all.
bypass caps are the way to go, even with cheap caps.
bypass caps only really help when used with nicer caps.
bypass caps dont do anything at all.
???
im going to go buy an amp instead
i understand the only way i could get something that would be gaurenteed to sound good would be to buy blackgates bypassed with auricaps. but if i had that kinda money, i wouldnt be doing DIY, now would i?
You seems to be in the middle of same kind of questions than i am also. This ps. cap question seems to be kinda difficult. You get so many suggestions that you can be confused. I think caps that Hypex is using in their ps. (BHC slit foils) should be one "safe" selection. Bruno and Jan-Peter has said many times that these are very good and have exelent price/performance ratio.
cowanrg said:
You mean Hypex HG supply? Slit foils are not expensive if you wan to do supply yourself. http://www.schuro.de/preisl-slit-foils.htm
I do not know if these are found from US.
cowanrg said:
why not? You think you can find a commercial amp for less than $15,000 that has such components inside?
Clearly, it is worth testing first if UCDs respond to power supply caps at all. There is a lot of conflicting info out there, starting with the fact that there are two grades of PSUs available from Hypex. If the PSU caps didn't matter, why then cheesy blue caps in the cheap unit and fancy slit foils in the HGs? Just to sell to those of us who will buy the high grade just because it exists (that is a possibility - I'd probably fall for it)
The thing about $$$$ components has another side to it (assuming they actually ARE better): I have seen the the guts of many expensive amps, and when you see things like not even the same brand of coupling caps being used in "matched monoblocks" that were sold as a pair you just begin to realize that just about anything built with care by yourself has the potential to be better than what's available at the dealer.
Bottom line - want it done right, do it yourself. That doesn't mean you can do it cheaply. Sometimes you need to build things a few times and go through a pile of parts to get it right... call it an investment in that "parts bin"
Peter
Bypass caps- No
I often see people advocating bypassing filter caps with film caps of some description. IME this is not the thing to do at all. Doing so will lower the impedance of the supply at high frequencies BUT will(not might) create a high frequency resonance which will be destructive to sound quality in the long run.
You can of course try a zobel network to damp this resonance, but
straight bypasing is a no-no. Take it from one who has tried it many times. Oh, before I forget, bypassed black gates sound particularly noxious...
Regards,
Rob.
I often see people advocating bypassing filter caps with film caps of some description. IME this is not the thing to do at all. Doing so will lower the impedance of the supply at high frequencies BUT will(not might) create a high frequency resonance which will be destructive to sound quality in the long run.
You can of course try a zobel network to damp this resonance, but
straight bypasing is a no-no. Take it from one who has tried it many times. Oh, before I forget, bypassed black gates sound particularly noxious...
Regards,
Rob.
Re: Bypass caps- No
I'd say it depends on the amplifier. I have here a pair of amps that sounds just great, in spite of a number of Wima bypass caps on each of the big 15,000uF Filter caps (180,000 in each supply)
the wimas are those red thingies on the outside banks of filter caps:
http://www.odysseyaudiomx.com/fotos/stratos-xt-inside2.jpg
Robert F said:
I'd say it depends on the amplifier. I have here a pair of amps that sounds just great, in spite of a number of Wima bypass caps on each of the big 15,000uF Filter caps (180,000 in each supply)
the wimas are those red thingies on the outside banks of filter caps:
http://www.odysseyaudiomx.com/fotos/stratos-xt-inside2.jpg
Re: Bypass caps- No
IMO this is complete bunk. In essense you advocating the use of high-ESR caps in the power supply. I don't think many will agree with you on that point.
Low ESR means low impedance at high frequencies. Using poly caps to bypass standard electrolytic caps in a power supply has the same effect as using expensive, specially formulated low-ESR filter caps like Black Gates.
But don't take my word for it. Erno Borbely knows a thing or two about amplifier power supply design. From his website:
"Electrolytics are usually specified with ESR (Equivalent Series Resistance). It is important to use caps with low ESR. For low and medium power applications we are using ELNA CERAFINE and Nichicon caps, which have been designed for high performance audio, or ROE/Frolyt caps, which have been designed for switch-mode power supplies. The Panasonic FC electrolytics are also very much used in this power range. The electrolytic caps show increasing impedance at high frequencies (usually above 10kHz), so it is a good practice to parallel the electrolytic with film caps."
http://www.borbelyaudio.com/power_supplies.asp
I've had good success using Solen Fast Caps in my UcD power supplies. They aren't too expensive and are of good quality.
Robert F said:
IMO this is complete bunk. In essense you advocating the use of high-ESR caps in the power supply. I don't think many will agree with you on that point.
Low ESR means low impedance at high frequencies. Using poly caps to bypass standard electrolytic caps in a power supply has the same effect as using expensive, specially formulated low-ESR filter caps like Black Gates.
But don't take my word for it. Erno Borbely knows a thing or two about amplifier power supply design. From his website:
"Electrolytics are usually specified with ESR (Equivalent Series Resistance). It is important to use caps with low ESR. For low and medium power applications we are using ELNA CERAFINE and Nichicon caps, which have been designed for high performance audio, or ROE/Frolyt caps, which have been designed for switch-mode power supplies. The Panasonic FC electrolytics are also very much used in this power range. The electrolytic caps show increasing impedance at high frequencies (usually above 10kHz), so it is a good practice to parallel the electrolytic with film caps."
http://www.borbelyaudio.com/power_supplies.asp
I've had good success using Solen Fast Caps in my UcD power supplies. They aren't too expensive and are of good quality.
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