Just to be clear on this point: I won't be getting or building a First One amp. Not now, not ever.
Even though I've mentioned them a few times and I was heading in that direction, the recent reports and seemingly lack of customer support in any way steered me away from that route. I'm sorry to see it happen. I'm sure there is some form of explanation for all that is going on but it's not something I would like to learn the hard way.
Even though I've mentioned them a few times and I was heading in that direction, the recent reports and seemingly lack of customer support in any way steered me away from that route. I'm sorry to see it happen. I'm sure there is some form of explanation for all that is going on but it's not something I would like to learn the hard way.
True, there are many component pieces that will effect the sound, and the amp is more complex than the simple V-F characteristic usually presented. The amp may have internal electrical feedback, but w.r.t the speaker it is open loop, as the amp has no way of sensing what the driver is doing. Any voltage drop or current drawn could be the driver or maybe just the XO or just complex cable load.
However when the entire system is measured for EQ, there is a global feedback loop created. The acoustic output is measured, compared to the electrical input and the system EQ tries to null out as many "imperfections" as possible. It would be interesting, as you mention, to see what the difference would be with a different amp. Either repeating the EQ after a change of equipment or measuring its effect after a change. It's only curiosity.
Last edited:
Agree system wise Pioneer amp did a fantastic job but have no doubt had you been there you picked that Goldmond clone too, difference it not a 40k$ worth thing and our mothers probably wouldn't notice unless we guided them to say yes this sounds better
but for us audio nuts it was a rather big improvement.BTW before that journey had not thought it would be easy to point out some differences but it was, as wesayso said creating a synergy when combined.
Now could we discuss cable sound
it is so wesayso have a short run TOSKON from PC to Musical Fidelity M1 DAC that is situated on opposite wall than speaker arrays plus power amp and then probably under the floor goes L&R analog single ended cable and that run must be about 4-6 meters i guess, in PM we have discussed about prolong that digital TOSKON and move M1 DAC over to power amp with a short run of analog single ended cable, now would that be audioable guys ?
Maybe put a 25 small TDA7297 (quasi-complimentary output I believe) Class AB at each driver - connected by 2in long wire from faston tab to amp output pin, and fed by a power bus of 8ga solid copper to hefty 28vdc supply with 100mF. But now you have distribution issue for low voltage signal wire. Maybe fan-out distribution opamp?
Now could we discuss cable sound
I will find out!
Different power supplies can sound different, IME. For example the Icepower modules sound very solid in the bass to me, much how you describe the Goldmind clone. They have a SMPS right on the amp board.
Sine you have a good measurement setup, it behooves you to do some measuring. Some of it may be as simple as frequency response, some other things you might have to look at waterfalls or similar plots.
Sine you have a good measurement setup, it behooves you to do some measuring. Some of it may be as simple as frequency response, some other things you might have to look at waterfalls or similar plots.
My bet it is audioable just a little micro bit to the better or at least hope soI will find out!
The variation in dynamic loading & matching of amplifiers to loudspeakers could be understood.
But these arrays may be the simplest impedance profile any amp can see.
In a typical 3 way system with lots of passive elements, subjective SQ variations should be even more.
What effects sound-stage width or depth though? Any take on this?
This is noticed even in exact EQed systems. When people compare amps, they always say soundstage is "wider", "narrower", "collapsing" & so on.
And does a amplifier designer knows how to design one that would have 'this' or 'that' type of soundstage?
Wesayso, hope your new kittens does not like small round black paper cones with a cute button in the middle that does not says " don't push"!
But these arrays may be the simplest impedance profile any amp can see.
In a typical 3 way system with lots of passive elements, subjective SQ variations should be even more.
What effects sound-stage width or depth though? Any take on this?
This is noticed even in exact EQed systems. When people compare amps, they always say soundstage is "wider", "narrower", "collapsing" & so on.
And does a amplifier designer knows how to design one that would have 'this' or 'that' type of soundstage?
Wesayso, hope your new kittens does not like small round black paper cones with a cute button in the middle that does not says " don't push"!
According to NuPrime, yes, they can.
Here's a quote from them:
When we set out to design a new model, we have a good idea of where we want to position the product and its target customers. And after ten years of designing high-end audio, our team pretty much can precisely control every aspect of the performance and sound characteristic.
STA-9 design is derived from the same amp as STA-8, we made it more tube-like. But since they are fundamentally from the same design, dynamic and resolution would be the same. For texture, you can argue that STA-9 would be warmer with more even harmonics (seriously, we can control the even harmonics of an amp, scary huh)
Taken from this page that does a comparison in dynamics, resolution, soundstage, warmth, high and low extension and texture between amps.
NuPrime Amp Comparison
Not trying to be a fan boy here.
I had some Yamaha amps, NAD, AudioLab, cheap D boards, and at the moment the MCH-K38 from NuPrime.
That last unit really expanded the soundstage of what I had previously, it was not just a slight improvement, it was intense.
I'm sure other manufacturers also have impressive amps that can have depth, soundstage, meat on the bass, and clear mids with a high extension. So far, I'm quite pleased with my amp.
Last edited:
Soundstage can be affected by stereo separation. Some amps are -50dB, very good is -72dB, excellent is -85dB and better. Secondly, soundstage or spatial imaging is also affected by phase coherence in the telephone band. Just in same way fullrange drivers do a great job here vs multiways, amps that do very well in spatial imaging and soundstage are low or zero global feedback topologies. Amps that achieve high linearity through good design via topology at each stage, rather than relying on the band aid of large global negative feedback to correct for non linearities sound better.
The first one is achieved with monoblocks. In amps with true separate power supplies there can be no audio signal cross coupling through the supply rail. One way to check is do press your ear on cone of speaker channel that has input disconnected while playing source to others channel. A good amp will be silent on disconnected channel. Some things that can improve this without a true monoblock. Have separate CRC PSU’s for each channel. I did this only Class AB and it was a significant improvement in soundstage. Or add a separate capacitance multiplier for each channel. That adds better than -50dB isolation.
The amp topology cannot be changed except to change amps.
The first one is achieved with monoblocks. In amps with true separate power supplies there can be no audio signal cross coupling through the supply rail. One way to check is do press your ear on cone of speaker channel that has input disconnected while playing source to others channel. A good amp will be silent on disconnected channel. Some things that can improve this without a true monoblock. Have separate CRC PSU’s for each channel. I did this only Class AB and it was a significant improvement in soundstage. Or add a separate capacitance multiplier for each channel. That adds better than -50dB isolation.
The amp topology cannot be changed except to change amps.
One thing stood out for me, imaging wise...
On the track: "Malia & Boris Blank - Raising Venus" from the album "Convergence" the separation between left/right appeared to be more clear.
There are echo's on the voice part that go left first and then right, and it's repeated in the next line, though more subtle... That part had a clear difference with the Goldmund. I did not notice it on the other amps.
In a way it was slightly wider and more distinct.
I'd say it has better channel separation.
A note on that kitten part: definitely a worry with this one... it has a total disregard for everything in our house and considers everything to be her toys. So far she has not touched the cones but she did manage to pry loose the left channel.
On the first day in her new home she liked the damping panels and climbed all the way to the top!
I was nervous to play music with her in the room, when I did, she went into hiding at first, while looking at me from a distance. Slowly she found her way back and sat on my lap, while trying to figure out where that noise came from... Staring at the wall in front of her in disbelief with eyes wide open... she purred though...
This is her:
Seems innocent enough, right?
On the first day in her new home she liked the damping panels and climbed all the way to the top!
I was nervous to play music with her in the room, when I did, she went into hiding at first, while looking at me from a distance. Slowly she found her way back and sat on my lap, while trying to figure out where that noise came from... Staring at the wall in front of her in disbelief with eyes wide open... she purred though...
This is her:
Seems innocent enough, right?
That's a cutie.
My cat now loves music. When I play music, she'll jump on the couch and sit with me if I'm there, or just chill on the couch if it's background music during the day.
She loves classic rock, progressive rock, but not so much classical big orchestra...
Over the years, we have had a mutual understanding. She knows when playing with some things is ok, others, not. For example, I taught her early that it was not ok to scratch the couch. I would growl when she would try at first. But, I let her scratch a cheap wood furniture. That's her go to place now when she feels the needs, and leaves the couch alone.
She didn't try to poke or scratch any of my speakers either.
But, she's the one who found me. She adopted me when she was a very young abandoned kitten. We've had a special relationship for the last 15 years...
My cat now loves music. When I play music, she'll jump on the couch and sit with me if I'm there, or just chill on the couch if it's background music during the day.
She loves classic rock, progressive rock, but not so much classical big orchestra...
Over the years, we have had a mutual understanding. She knows when playing with some things is ok, others, not. For example, I taught her early that it was not ok to scratch the couch. I would growl when she would try at first. But, I let her scratch a cheap wood furniture. That's her go to place now when she feels the needs, and leaves the couch alone.
She didn't try to poke or scratch any of my speakers either.
But, she's the one who found me. She adopted me when she was a very young abandoned kitten. We've had a special relationship for the last 15 years...
Attachments
Last edited: