Re: Re: The 'Interface' - Steve Eddy?
That's their pricing period. They don't have any separate OEM pricing. The prices they have listed on their website are the prices I pay. The only difference is that I don't pay sales taxes whereas a DIYer or end user in California would have to.
My total parts cost is a little over $300.
For those who don't wish to pay the $575, Jensen sells their IsoMax CI2-RR for $177.95 in 1-11 quantity. As for DIYers, they should buy the raw transformers and build them into their projects rather than using a separate box.
se
Kuei Yang Wang said:
That's their pricing period. They don't have any separate OEM pricing. The prices they have listed on their website are the prices I pay. The only difference is that I don't pay sales taxes whereas a DIYer or end user in California would have to.
My total parts cost is a little over $300.
For those who don't wish to pay the $575, Jensen sells their IsoMax CI2-RR for $177.95 in 1-11 quantity. As for DIYers, they should buy the raw transformers and build them into their projects rather than using a separate box.
se
Re: Re: Re: The 'Interface' - Steve Eddy?
Konnichiwa,
My point is that it IS priced at the same levels.
If there where distribution and dealer sales the price over the shop counter would be much higher, probably > $ 1,200. The pricing is normal for High End gear made in small quantities.
Of course, one might question the ethics of someone who criticeses others for similar markups on things he does not happen to "believe in" but marks up his own the same way instead suggestingon his webpages to potential customers to simply: "go and buy the functionally identical Jensen IsoMax CI2-RR for $177.95 in 1-11 quantity".
But we had this discussion elsewhere and we do not warm over this particular Mr. Death for X-mess....
Sayonara
Konnichiwa,
millwood said:
My point is that it IS priced at the same levels.
If there where distribution and dealer sales the price over the shop counter would be much higher, probably > $ 1,200. The pricing is normal for High End gear made in small quantities.
Of course, one might question the ethics of someone who criticeses others for similar markups on things he does not happen to "believe in" but marks up his own the same way instead suggestingon his webpages to potential customers to simply: "go and buy the functionally identical Jensen IsoMax CI2-RR for $177.95 in 1-11 quantity".
But we had this discussion elsewhere and we do not warm over this particular Mr. Death for X-mess....
Sayonara
SY said:
I have to agree, the WBT type is the only RCA connector I ever have experienced bad or no connection with...(exept cheapo plastic-factory types)
And the other thing you will curse them for, is that they need a slightly larger hole than most others...so they cannot be replaced easily.
Arne K
Re: Re: Re: Re: The 'Interface' - Steve Eddy?
You kiddin' me?
Do you see $660 of parts in a Gainclone/Power Humpty? I certainly don't.
Our 10.5r power amplifier, which is priced for dealer distribution, lists for $50 less than the Gaincard/Power Humpty at $3,250. You telling me that the parts cost of the Gaincard/Power Humpty is the same as the parts cost for this?
Sorry, again, I don't see $660 of parts in the Gainclone/Power Humpty.
There's at least as much machining and finishing involved in the metal pieces of the InterFace (top cover, bottom cover and rear panel) as there is in the Gaincard's chassis (the actual materials cost is pretty cheap, the costs are in the machining and finishing).
I dug up my original quote from my machinist quoting from 10 to 100 pieces, and to have just 10 pieces each made, the total cost for a single chassis comes to $127.45. That's for a US shop with US labor costs.
The Gainclone proper lists for $1,500. At a not unheard of retail pricing of 5 times parts cost, the parts cost would come to $300. If we subtract the generous $127.45 from that $300, we're left with $172.55.
So where's that $172.55 of parts? Aside from the chassis, I don't see more than $20 of parts in the Gainclone.
What's this "things he does not happen to 'believe in'" nonsense? I've never had anything but admiration for the Gaincard.
I don't see much more than about $260 or so of parts in the Gainclone/Power Humpty, which puts their retail pricing at something closer to 10 times parts cost. If I were to retail the InterFace at $1,500, that would put it at about 5 times parts cost.
se
Kuei Yang Wang said:
You kiddin' me?
Do you see $660 of parts in a Gainclone/Power Humpty? I certainly don't.
Our 10.5r power amplifier, which is priced for dealer distribution, lists for $50 less than the Gaincard/Power Humpty at $3,250. You telling me that the parts cost of the Gaincard/Power Humpty is the same as the parts cost for this?
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Sorry, again, I don't see $660 of parts in the Gainclone/Power Humpty.
There's at least as much machining and finishing involved in the metal pieces of the InterFace (top cover, bottom cover and rear panel) as there is in the Gaincard's chassis (the actual materials cost is pretty cheap, the costs are in the machining and finishing).
I dug up my original quote from my machinist quoting from 10 to 100 pieces, and to have just 10 pieces each made, the total cost for a single chassis comes to $127.45. That's for a US shop with US labor costs.
The Gainclone proper lists for $1,500. At a not unheard of retail pricing of 5 times parts cost, the parts cost would come to $300. If we subtract the generous $127.45 from that $300, we're left with $172.55.
So where's that $172.55 of parts? Aside from the chassis, I don't see more than $20 of parts in the Gainclone.
What's this "things he does not happen to 'believe in'" nonsense? I've never had anything but admiration for the Gaincard.
I don't see much more than about $260 or so of parts in the Gainclone/Power Humpty, which puts their retail pricing at something closer to 10 times parts cost. If I were to retail the InterFace at $1,500, that would put it at about 5 times parts cost.
se
Hi,
Yes and I can see why....
This is a typical specialty product where the actual manufacturer takes most of the profit assuming that the U.S. market is big enough for him to make a living.
I don't have any problem with that at all. It just doesn't leave any margin for a possible importer outside of the U.S. so they should look elsewhere.
If we look at the retail prices of most high-end product imported from the U.S. fifteen years ago, you'd notice at least a doubling of the price compared to the going U.S. retail price.
Simply put: these companies are/were simply not set up for export.
Nowadays, with the webshops set up by various dealers and courier services rapidly expanding, an individual can easily order across the big pond and have his goods delivered at moderate extra cost.
Anyway you look at it it's going to more pricey than buying locally.
Naturally we can all stick to DIY too but you'd still need the raw materials and the skill to build...
Cheers,
Yes and I can see why....
This is a typical specialty product where the actual manufacturer takes most of the profit assuming that the U.S. market is big enough for him to make a living.
I don't have any problem with that at all. It just doesn't leave any margin for a possible importer outside of the U.S. so they should look elsewhere.
If we look at the retail prices of most high-end product imported from the U.S. fifteen years ago, you'd notice at least a doubling of the price compared to the going U.S. retail price.
Simply put: these companies are/were simply not set up for export.
Nowadays, with the webshops set up by various dealers and courier services rapidly expanding, an individual can easily order across the big pond and have his goods delivered at moderate extra cost.
Anyway you look at it it's going to more pricey than buying locally.
Naturally we can all stick to DIY too but you'd still need the raw materials and the skill to build...
Cheers,
dhaen said:There seems to be a constant whingeing about profit.
We live in a capitalist system (most of us). Things are priced at what the market will bear, and what competition allows.
We all have to eat! If you don't want something, you don't have to buy it
I agree. I'm a capitalist myself and support one's right to ask whatever they want for their products.
However I'm also a consumer, and personally I feel that when the price asked exceeds what I believe is a reasonable relationship to its cost to produce, it begins to exhibit a certain contempt on the part of a manufacturer for their customers. And speaking for myself, I choose not to patronize those manufacturers who exhibit such contempt.
So I'm not saying that 47 Labs shouldn't be allowed to ask what they want for their products, only that I personally see their pricing as contemptuous.
In other words, I'm simply expressing my personal opinion.
In this case however, I disagreeing with Thorsten's contention that the Gaincard is priced in the region of 5 times parts cost.
se
fdegrove said:
I don't think it's a matter of their not being set up for export. They're just not hiding the fact that the more fingers there are in the pie, the greater the price is going to be to the end user.
Sure, they could raise their domestic pricing to try and hide this fact and take the extra profit for themselves. And I'm sure many do. Though it's not something I'd want to do.
And of course there was the case of Mobile Fidelity, whose domestic prices exceeded the US selling prices.
Sure. That works if the buyer doesn't expect to return the product either for some sort of return period or for service.
Sure. But the overseas distributors and the local (to the distributor) retailers do add some value in that the customer is able to more easily audition products as well as making repairs less costly. Hopefully anyway.
se
Hi,
In the near future even the objection of being at a distant location will be ruled out and I expect maintenance services to operate that way.
Alternatively the currently known role of the importer will be transformed from a local update and repair service with annex sales force and logistic ops. to a mere commercial representative POP.
Whether either are viable propositions will again depend on the margin the manufacturer is willing to cut them.
With current legislation as it is, it's not going to be easy for the specialty, small turnover manufacturers to penetrate international markets.
Cheers,
In the near future even the objection of being at a distant location will be ruled out and I expect maintenance services to operate that way.
Alternatively the currently known role of the importer will be transformed from a local update and repair service with annex sales force and logistic ops. to a mere commercial representative POP.
Whether either are viable propositions will again depend on the margin the manufacturer is willing to cut them.
With current legislation as it is, it's not going to be easy for the specialty, small turnover manufacturers to penetrate international markets.
Cheers,
Peter Daniel said:But why going through the trouble of mechanical decoupling the transformers, if this doesn't bring any benefit? Unless the only benefit is a better sales pitch?
It does bring benefit. It brings benefit to me subjectively. I do the things that I do because they work for me subjectively. That's all that I ultimately care about. And since the benefit is ultimately just my own personal subjective experience and preference, I can't rightly pass it off as any sort of objective benefit.
So I don't.
se
Hi,
Implied because of conditioning of the prospective buyer by the individual manufactures and their marketing machines and/or reputation.
All very innnocent and understandable................Next versions may just as well state Neutrik XLR connectors, fully balanced superconductors, SuperTeflon caps etc...
As Millwood says it's just a statement of facts that may lure the prospective customer into buying the product and hey, we all know how dreadfully microphonic xformers are, don't we?
Well powerxformers can introduce vibrations into circuits and will benefit from decoupling, here it's just a marketing ploy...
Cheers,
Implied because of conditioning of the prospective buyer by the individual manufactures and their marketing machines and/or reputation.
All very innnocent and understandable................Next versions may just as well state Neutrik XLR connectors, fully balanced superconductors, SuperTeflon caps etc...
As Millwood says it's just a statement of facts that may lure the prospective customer into buying the product and hey, we all know how dreadfully microphonic xformers are, don't we?
Well powerxformers can introduce vibrations into circuits and will benefit from decoupling, here it's just a marketing ploy...
Cheers,
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