Magura said:
I should have said parts cost rather than materials cost. The around $70 is based on a 50 piece run for the metal parts (machining, finishing and laser engraving) and the cost of the wood (including laser engraving), and not counting my labor for the woodworking and finishing which I do myself.
se
Half Truths Are NOT The Whole Truth......
Midas Venice mixing console specs -
CMR at 100Hz Mic (gain + 40dB) Typ. 75dB
CMR at 1kHz Mic (gain + 40dB) > 85dB
RVR broadcast FM stereo encoder specs -
CMRR > 60 dB
I did not have to look too hard to find published completed modern equipment specs that far exceed your 30-50 dB false assertion.
Just straight out saying (without qualifiers) that your box provides 100 dB of CMR is patently false (a bold faced lie) when this does not apply over the whole audio band, and as written on your front page is deliberately intended to decieve, and as such is false and deceptive advertising.
Saying that typical CMRR specs for balanced connections is as low as 30-50 dB is patently false also.
If balanced inputs on live or recording equipment were typically as bad as that, induced noise levels would be intolerable.
Quoting individual transformer manufacturer performance figures is totally not the same as quoting figures for your completed product.
For your performance claims to be legitimate you need to clearly say on your site that these are manufacturers individual transformer performance figures, or else get someone like Bruno to run appropriate measurements on your completed product that you can publish.
Also the figures (Jensen's) that you quote are for 600 ohms source impedence, and this is not typical - most gear includes build out resistors of around 100 to 200 ohms, and this will affect performance.
Steve, I am not against you building and marketing such a product, but I am very much against false and misleading published specs, as I very clearly understand you are.
You need to run performance testing of your completed product and not merely infer specs from the component manufacturer.
"I don't recall claiming it was rocket science. And the documentation for the product is correct."
The documentation for the individual transformers is likely correct.
Making your web-site documentation fully truthfully correct is not rocket science either.
Eric.
Midas Venice mixing console specs -
CMR at 100Hz Mic (gain + 40dB) Typ. 75dB
CMR at 1kHz Mic (gain + 40dB) > 85dB
RVR broadcast FM stereo encoder specs -
CMRR > 60 dB
I did not have to look too hard to find published completed modern equipment specs that far exceed your 30-50 dB false assertion.
Just straight out saying (without qualifiers) that your box provides 100 dB of CMR is patently false (a bold faced lie) when this does not apply over the whole audio band, and as written on your front page is deliberately intended to decieve, and as such is false and deceptive advertising.
Saying that typical CMRR specs for balanced connections is as low as 30-50 dB is patently false also.
If balanced inputs on live or recording equipment were typically as bad as that, induced noise levels would be intolerable.
Quoting individual transformer manufacturer performance figures is totally not the same as quoting figures for your completed product.
For your performance claims to be legitimate you need to clearly say on your site that these are manufacturers individual transformer performance figures, or else get someone like Bruno to run appropriate measurements on your completed product that you can publish.
Also the figures (Jensen's) that you quote are for 600 ohms source impedence, and this is not typical - most gear includes build out resistors of around 100 to 200 ohms, and this will affect performance.
Steve, I am not against you building and marketing such a product, but I am very much against false and misleading published specs, as I very clearly understand you are.
You need to run performance testing of your completed product and not merely infer specs from the component manufacturer.
"I don't recall claiming it was rocket science. And the documentation for the product is correct."
The documentation for the individual transformers is likely correct.
Making your web-site documentation fully truthfully correct is not rocket science either.
Eric.
Re: Half Truths Are NOT The Whole Truth......
Allow me to take a page out of your book here.
Those specs aren't true. There's no source impedance specified. There's no signal level specified. The RVR spec doesn't even include frequency. Midas and RVR are making patently false claims. They're a bunch of bold-faced liars.
The 30-50 dB is for an electronically balanced input being fed from an UNBALANCED SOURCE.
Give it a rest, Eric. It was a parenthetic comment. The frequency at which the 100 dB applies is given on the Specs page. If I were deliberately intending to deceive, why would I bother to specify the frequency on the Specs page?
Show me some gear which has a specified CMRR of greater than 50 dB when fed from an unbalanced source.
Get a grip, Eric. Simply terminating the transformer's leads with RCA jacks isn't going to change the transformer's performance.
Yes, source impedances of 100-200 ohms would affect performance. It would improve performance over a 600 ohm source. The 600 ohm source impedance makes for a good balance between lower source impedance solid state gear and higher source impedance tube gear.
Oh please. You're just out on a fishing expedition looking to land a "GOTCHA!"
Where's your outrage at Midas' not specifying source impedance or signal level for their CMR specs?
Again, tell me how terminating the transformers with RCAs is going to significantly alter the transformer's performance.
se
mrfeedback said:
Allow me to take a page out of your book here.
Those specs aren't true. There's no source impedance specified. There's no signal level specified. The RVR spec doesn't even include frequency. Midas and RVR are making patently false claims. They're a bunch of bold-faced liars.
The 30-50 dB is for an electronically balanced input being fed from an UNBALANCED SOURCE.
Give it a rest, Eric. It was a parenthetic comment. The frequency at which the 100 dB applies is given on the Specs page. If I were deliberately intending to deceive, why would I bother to specify the frequency on the Specs page?
Show me some gear which has a specified CMRR of greater than 50 dB when fed from an unbalanced source.
Get a grip, Eric. Simply terminating the transformer's leads with RCA jacks isn't going to change the transformer's performance.
Yes, source impedances of 100-200 ohms would affect performance. It would improve performance over a 600 ohm source. The 600 ohm source impedance makes for a good balance between lower source impedance solid state gear and higher source impedance tube gear.
Oh please. You're just out on a fishing expedition looking to land a "GOTCHA!"
Where's your outrage at Midas' not specifying source impedance or signal level for their CMR specs?
Again, tell me how terminating the transformers with RCAs is going to significantly alter the transformer's performance.
se
fdegrove said:
No, just doing a pretty flaccid job of baiting someone. What has happened to the once-fine art of vituperation? Where are the Menckens of the audio world? Where is your and Eric's creativity, your verve, your èlan? I'm disappointed; it's being done ineffectively and humorlessly. (In Eric's case, humourlessly)
You and Eric have been so funny in the past. Is it the stress of the holiday season tiring you out?
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