Assuming for a second that this isn't a joke, which it probably is ... just build the Milestones.
http://homepage.mac.com/marc.heijligers/audio/milestones/index.html
http://homepage.mac.com/marc.heijligers/audio/milestones/index.html
can i get a link to the TAD woofer and mid-bass?
FYI, he is not paying me $4000 for labor, its $4000-4500 for the cabinet and drivers.
if i were him, id go with the ribbon, but he says he has heard the supertweeter before and really enjoyed the sound
and TURBOFC35, why the heck would i waste my time here if i were trying to make a joke?
FYI, he is not paying me $4000 for labor, its $4000-4500 for the cabinet and drivers.
if i were him, id go with the ribbon, but he says he has heard the supertweeter before and really enjoyed the sound
and TURBOFC35, why the heck would i waste my time here if i were trying to make a joke?
Why doesn't he buy the drivers himself? So really you are building the cabinet, like I asked?
I think really one person needs to do the build and design as there are too many factors for one person to choose drivers, another to build cabinet and then (worst of all) for a third person to build the Xover. You need to consider all of these things simultaneously.
You can find TAD at this site under 'for business' http://www.pioneerelectronics.com (has not been working well for me)
and the Accuton mid I'm not sure, the C44 is at Madisound not sure about the C45. I wouldn't use the C44 as although it reaches 4KHz, its off-axis response drops from there and the super-tweeter only just kicks in. It will not Xover very well or give a good power response.
I'd tell him to shove the super tweeter up his bum! Looking at the PDF for it, it has a recommended 7KHz Xover.
As such, I would change my suggestion back to using an Audio Technology 18mm C-quenze and the Hi-Vi RT8II ribbon with a 2KHz or maybe 3KHz Xover. You can then add the super-tweeter if you wish, but its a waste of space IMO.
I think really one person needs to do the build and design as there are too many factors for one person to choose drivers, another to build cabinet and then (worst of all) for a third person to build the Xover. You need to consider all of these things simultaneously.
You can find TAD at this site under 'for business' http://www.pioneerelectronics.com (has not been working well for me)
and the Accuton mid I'm not sure, the C44 is at Madisound not sure about the C45. I wouldn't use the C44 as although it reaches 4KHz, its off-axis response drops from there and the super-tweeter only just kicks in. It will not Xover very well or give a good power response.
I'd tell him to shove the super tweeter up his bum! Looking at the PDF for it, it has a recommended 7KHz Xover.
As such, I would change my suggestion back to using an Audio Technology 18mm C-quenze and the Hi-Vi RT8II ribbon with a 2KHz or maybe 3KHz Xover. You can then add the super-tweeter if you wish, but its a waste of space IMO.
Hi, do NOT even consider C44, ... too low SPL ... C45 is a new model with the new neo motor... might be hard to get .... but I know of no other alternative good enough with this wide FR and high enough SPL.... maybe a VERAVOX 5, but not sure
I cant open pioneer site at the moment either
Found another way in
http://www.pioneer.eu/eur/products/45/200/1083/TL-1102/index.html
But ofcourse you could, as Tenson suggest, just make a standard 2-way with a couple of C-quenze and a tweeter - easy way out
I cant open pioneer site at the moment either
Found another way in
http://www.pioneer.eu/eur/products/45/200/1083/TL-1102/index.html
But ofcourse you could, as Tenson suggest, just make a standard 2-way with a couple of C-quenze and a tweeter - easy way out
This is getting a little too scary. I don't want to discourage legendaryfrog, far from it. But he is embarking (or has) on a 4.5~5K contract.
That has legal and moral ramifications. By all means do the research and ask questions.
But what if his Dad's boss isn't happy with the end result?
To me, the figures don't add up. If I had a budget of 5 grand, I wouldn't be looking at 8" drivers for bass.
This could be a great project. But get the boss to do all the purchasing, and if he chooses to pay the lad for his research and advice, and cabinet making, that's fine. That could be the kick start into a great career.
Have I missed something? What is the application? Room size, musical flavour? The only thing we know, is that he likes a Beolabs clone. And theyr'e for the bedroom.
I think we need to rethink.
Geoff.
PS I want the contract for the living room. LOL 25 K??
PPS. legendaryfrog, I often have clients with a budget in excess of what they need to spend. They do appreciate the honesty when you achieve their requirements, and come under budget.
That has legal and moral ramifications. By all means do the research and ask questions.
But what if his Dad's boss isn't happy with the end result?
To me, the figures don't add up. If I had a budget of 5 grand, I wouldn't be looking at 8" drivers for bass.
This could be a great project. But get the boss to do all the purchasing, and if he chooses to pay the lad for his research and advice, and cabinet making, that's fine. That could be the kick start into a great career.
Have I missed something? What is the application? Room size, musical flavour? The only thing we know, is that he likes a Beolabs clone. And theyr'e for the bedroom.
I think we need to rethink.
Geoff.
PS I want the contract for the living room. LOL 25 K??
PPS. legendaryfrog, I often have clients with a budget in excess of what they need to spend. They do appreciate the honesty when you achieve their requirements, and come under budget.
geoff, he's a 53 year old man. knowing older people, they dont exactly enjoy bass as much as this generation.
some info about his bedroom: 20 by 25 feet, cathedral ceilings. he already has surrounds (not sure of the model, but i think ascend), and 2 krell resolution subs
and im pretty he wouldnt care about burning 5000 dollars on a pair of bedroom speakers.
ive heard his main system is the INFERNO by Krell. thats like half a milion from what ive heard
some info about his bedroom: 20 by 25 feet, cathedral ceilings. he already has surrounds (not sure of the model, but i think ascend), and 2 krell resolution subs
and im pretty he wouldnt care about burning 5000 dollars on a pair of bedroom speakers.
ive heard his main system is the INFERNO by Krell. thats like half a milion from what ive heard
legendaryfrog said:
So just a month ago you were posting this
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=90490
And now you're taking on $4000 reference builds? From reading through your post history it sounds like you have no business what-so-ever accepting that kind of money from anyone for a build.
How about you post pictures of some of your completed work to show what you're capable of.
"geoff, he's a 53 year old man. knowing older people, they dont exactly enjoy bass as much as this generation."
Are you referring to me, or your dad's boss? FYI I'm a few day's shy of 53. Rule number one in consulting. Don't assume anything.
It's not a matter of enjoying bass, it's the bass content of the music. I enjoy a pan flute, Irish female vocalists etc. I also enjoy Pink Floyd, Santana, Supertramp, and Yes just to name a few. All these guy's were arround when your dads boss and I were teenagers at school. Heck, your dad, your mom, and the boss, may have even gone to Woodstock.
Bass isn't new. Have a listen to Edvard Grieg's Peer Gynt suite. Grieg passed away nearly 100 years ago.
To quote a well respected member of this forum, who I would say is a fellow oldie, based on his knowledge. "Loud is beautiful if it's clean"
BTW, I like my bass, helps maintain cardiac rythym. LOL
Geoff.
Are you referring to me, or your dad's boss? FYI I'm a few day's shy of 53. Rule number one in consulting. Don't assume anything.
It's not a matter of enjoying bass, it's the bass content of the music. I enjoy a pan flute, Irish female vocalists etc. I also enjoy Pink Floyd, Santana, Supertramp, and Yes just to name a few. All these guy's were arround when your dads boss and I were teenagers at school. Heck, your dad, your mom, and the boss, may have even gone to Woodstock.
Bass isn't new. Have a listen to Edvard Grieg's Peer Gynt suite. Grieg passed away nearly 100 years ago.
To quote a well respected member of this forum, who I would say is a fellow oldie, based on his knowledge. "Loud is beautiful if it's clean"
BTW, I like my bass, helps maintain cardiac rythym. LOL
Geoff.
I just can't stop laughing ...
A 13 year old kid, who says he's a Senior in High School is being comissioned by his Dad's Boss for ~$4000 to build a reference speaker. And less than a month ago this same 13 year old was asking on here "How do you design a crossover, it seems really hard" and proclaiming "I don't know how to solder" ... and supposedly build a Beolab 5 clone out of styrofoam.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for helping the next generation of DIY'ers get a start. But you gotta stop feeding us BS if you want any help kid. If you want to start from scratch and drop the tall tales, I'm sure you'll find nothing but friends on here.
A 13 year old kid, who says he's a Senior in High School is being comissioned by his Dad's Boss for ~$4000 to build a reference speaker. And less than a month ago this same 13 year old was asking on here "How do you design a crossover, it seems really hard" and proclaiming "I don't know how to solder" ... and supposedly build a Beolab 5 clone out of styrofoam.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for helping the next generation of DIY'ers get a start. But you gotta stop feeding us BS if you want any help kid. If you want to start from scratch and drop the tall tales, I'm sure you'll find nothing but friends on here.
for your information, i have a 12 YEAR OLD BROTHER who has recently gotton into speaker building. dont bug me about his posts. i am quite experienced with speaker building, unlike him.
Turbo, i get why this seems funny to you, i get quite a laugh myself when i introduce myself to others. but seriously, the high school thing is no joke. when i lived in Poland, my dad homeschooled me. hard.
and geoff, sorry about the quick assumption on age vs bass i made. ill admit i didnt think through that last post.
Turbo, i get why this seems funny to you, i get quite a laugh myself when i introduce myself to others. but seriously, the high school thing is no joke. when i lived in Poland, my dad homeschooled me. hard.
and geoff, sorry about the quick assumption on age vs bass i made. ill admit i didnt think through that last post.
Ok, so which posts are yours? Do you know how to solder? Do you know how to design and build crossovers? Are you able to measure your finished design and tweak to accomodate necessary changes? Do you have the necessary woodworking tools and skills to pull something like this off, in addition to the understanding of what goes into constructing an inert cabinet? Do you know how to read driver data and choose accordingly?
Unless you answer yes to all these things, it would be totally irresponsible to take $4000 of someone elses money for a project that you can't complete. I know I wouldn't take a project like that on myself, since I don't have the tools or skills to build a custom cabinet.
Here's one idea though, buy 4 of the Parts Express 1 cu/ft MTM cabinets ($75 each with free shipping right now), and use them to build 2 speakers. It would be almost a Dynaudio Evidence type construction. Use one MTM cabinet on top, one on bottom. I'd drill through and bolt the two cabs together, isolate them somehow with sorbothane or cork blocks. For the top cabinet use the vertical brace and essentially seal it off, use the front .5 cu/ft for the upper MTM drivers, and then use the rear .5 cu/ft for the lower 2 bass drivers ... connect the two chambers by simply cutting holes for ports in both. You'd end up with a 1.5 cu/ft volume for your 2 lower bass drivers.
Does that make any sense?
Upper I'd use a pair of Peerless Exclusive 4" driver and something like a Vifa XT19 crossed at around 2800hz. Maybe use a high end ribbon like the Mundorf AMT since the budget allows.
For the bottom you could use 2 Usher 8945A 7" drivers up to about 500hz.
Executed right, that could be a truly reference system and well under budget.
Unless you answer yes to all these things, it would be totally irresponsible to take $4000 of someone elses money for a project that you can't complete. I know I wouldn't take a project like that on myself, since I don't have the tools or skills to build a custom cabinet.
Here's one idea though, buy 4 of the Parts Express 1 cu/ft MTM cabinets ($75 each with free shipping right now), and use them to build 2 speakers. It would be almost a Dynaudio Evidence type construction. Use one MTM cabinet on top, one on bottom. I'd drill through and bolt the two cabs together, isolate them somehow with sorbothane or cork blocks. For the top cabinet use the vertical brace and essentially seal it off, use the front .5 cu/ft for the upper MTM drivers, and then use the rear .5 cu/ft for the lower 2 bass drivers ... connect the two chambers by simply cutting holes for ports in both. You'd end up with a 1.5 cu/ft volume for your 2 lower bass drivers.
Does that make any sense?
Upper I'd use a pair of Peerless Exclusive 4" driver and something like a Vifa XT19 crossed at around 2800hz. Maybe use a high end ribbon like the Mundorf AMT since the budget allows.
For the bottom you could use 2 Usher 8945A 7" drivers up to about 500hz.
Executed right, that could be a truly reference system and well under budget.
You never know, he might be able to design me a new pacemaker. LOL
I wonder if the likes of Roger Waters or Chris Squire read the earlier comments.
Now don't go knocking the pan flute. Even a tin whistle has it's place. (in Ireland)
Ok, let's give him the benefit of the doubt. We help him with his project, and he donates the "commission" to the forum. After all, this site is not intended for commercial gain.
Back to "Pulse" Floyd live and loud. Ha ha.
Geoff.
edit: I just saw the apology from Legendary frog. It's not neccessary, but I do accept it. You can learn a lot from this, and other forums. However if it is abused, you may get your posts ignored. It's your choice. Stay true to yourself, and other members.
I wonder if the likes of Roger Waters or Chris Squire read the earlier comments.
Now don't go knocking the pan flute. Even a tin whistle has it's place. (in Ireland)
Ok, let's give him the benefit of the doubt. We help him with his project, and he donates the "commission" to the forum. After all, this site is not intended for commercial gain.
Back to "Pulse" Floyd live and loud. Ha ha.
Geoff.
edit: I just saw the apology from Legendary frog. It's not neccessary, but I do accept it. You can learn a lot from this, and other forums. However if it is abused, you may get your posts ignored. It's your choice. Stay true to yourself, and other members.
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