Brain fart/'senior moment' on my part, guess I'm suffering more from the after effects of a major illness than I thought.
No, I was talking about making the cab at least 30" wide which means a high width x depth aspect ratio, narrow depth along its path-length.
GM
FWIW, all mine had the driver on what would be a BIB's rear panel, so plenty of room for even a relatively deep driver.
Yeah, for a pipe horn to have proper (sub) bass requires an appropriate driver for the BW same as a BR, i.e. think drivers suitable for a 'sub' T-TQWT or TH.
GM
I was saying too short, not too small. As in not being able to use the ceiling properly as a loading barrier. But if you turn it over, there is no problem. On the contrary you'll get the driver up to prober ear hight.
I don't get how you can get the driver to hit the cross divider with that deep cab.
BIBs up and running now. I have the Fostex 127e ($40) in one and the Dayton PA130 ($20) in the other. The Fostex are well broken in and the Dayton is fresh out of the box unused until today. They fit the same hole size and have similar looking frequency response charts. Pics to come.
First impressions for anyone interested:
Dayton has a fuller sound
Fostex has a sweeter sound
Both sound good to me but have different personalities. The Fostex sounds more whispy and airy. The Dayton more solid and rich. The overall balance is better with the Dayton in this particular cabinet but the Fostex has a magical way of handling female vocals that's intoxicating. You can hear the texture of vocals more clearly and they sound more lifelike. But they do sound smaller. Both congest on complicated music but i want to find which driver can reach more realistic levels. At the moment, if i was using them alone without bass support the Dayton would be the overall winner. They provide a more solid foundation and don't require a sub. If i were to eventually add a sub i might choose the more delicate and detailed Fostex.
Fostex = wine
Dayton = beer
I enjoy both!
Addendum, lol... my wife just came in for a listen and said the Fostex sounded 'sweeter' and she preferred it but thought the Dayton was also 'good.' I keep switching back and forth and can't decide which is more musical overall. They both offer a satisfying musical performance. Neither sounds like a little 'bookshelf' speaker and the imaging with either driver is superb! What seems to happen with the Fostex is interesting... instruments in the upper mids like violins and harmonica float apart from the performance. At the moment the Fostex offers more 'pop' and three dimensionality... but they do have a sonic signature and a bit of 'spittle' and sibilance the Dayton doesn't.
First impressions for anyone interested:
Dayton has a fuller sound
Fostex has a sweeter sound
Both sound good to me but have different personalities. The Fostex sounds more whispy and airy. The Dayton more solid and rich. The overall balance is better with the Dayton in this particular cabinet but the Fostex has a magical way of handling female vocals that's intoxicating. You can hear the texture of vocals more clearly and they sound more lifelike. But they do sound smaller. Both congest on complicated music but i want to find which driver can reach more realistic levels. At the moment, if i was using them alone without bass support the Dayton would be the overall winner. They provide a more solid foundation and don't require a sub. If i were to eventually add a sub i might choose the more delicate and detailed Fostex.
Fostex = wine
Dayton = beer
I enjoy both!
Addendum, lol... my wife just came in for a listen and said the Fostex sounded 'sweeter' and she preferred it but thought the Dayton was also 'good.' I keep switching back and forth and can't decide which is more musical overall. They both offer a satisfying musical performance. Neither sounds like a little 'bookshelf' speaker and the imaging with either driver is superb! What seems to happen with the Fostex is interesting... instruments in the upper mids like violins and harmonica float apart from the performance. At the moment the Fostex offers more 'pop' and three dimensionality... but they do have a sonic signature and a bit of 'spittle' and sibilance the Dayton doesn't.
Left camera at home so can't upload pics, sorry. I am loving them! They are unfinished but once i decide which driver to use i will bring them home to finish cosmetically. A musician friend of mine gave a listen shortly after wife and preferred the Dayton, lol! They are two different sounds and some will prefer one over the other. What it does prove to me, yet again, is price doesn't always indicate quality. In this case, only someone who really wanted the Fostex 'sweetness' would be willing to pay the extra $$. Having said that, i do feel the Fostex has the edge in naturalness of sound but loses out in overall presentation because it has less grunt in the lower mids/upper bass. The frequencies the Fostex plays are clearer and sound better. But over time the Fostex sounds a bit too trebbly... while the Dayton too bassy. I am enjoying the Dayton and think one of their small push in dome tweeters crossed around 7 - 10khz might prettify the treble and complete their sound... maybe i just want an excuse to buy more stuff!
On occasion the Fostex does make you sit up and notice something beautiful in the performance, like a string section floating in the background clear as a bell... the Dayton's blur it all a bit. I will order the domes today.
On occasion the Fostex does make you sit up and notice something beautiful in the performance, like a string section floating in the background clear as a bell... the Dayton's blur it all a bit. I will order the domes today.
Swapped out the Fostex for the Dayton and they sound AMAZING! These speakers are very musical and bounce along like only a BIB can. Incredible to be able to spend less than $100 and get this kind of sound. It's full and rich and fills my large room (13' x 16' with 11' high ceilings). The opening is facing up and they are close but not totally in corners. I was surprised at how much sound they easily fill the room with. Everyone who's come into my room LOVES them. I do too! They sound MUCH more expensive than they are!
The Fostex did sound better overall (they cost double) but I decided to save them for a future project and keep the Dayton's in the BIBs. I will be working on adding super tweeters in the week ahead and have a few ideas to explore. They are enjoyable without a tweeter and i can leave them that way but i want to add a bit of zip on top that i feel is lacking. Since the hole is the same size a Fostex can be considered a future upgrade.
They sound MUCH better than the full range GRS project i had hooked up... by FAR!
Pics to come next week... i say, if you want to build a BIB on the cheap, this is the way to go! I'll post dims too.
Zilla
The Fostex did sound better overall (they cost double) but I decided to save them for a future project and keep the Dayton's in the BIBs. I will be working on adding super tweeters in the week ahead and have a few ideas to explore. They are enjoyable without a tweeter and i can leave them that way but i want to add a bit of zip on top that i feel is lacking. Since the hole is the same size a Fostex can be considered a future upgrade.
They sound MUCH better than the full range GRS project i had hooked up... by FAR!
Pics to come next week... i say, if you want to build a BIB on the cheap, this is the way to go! I'll post dims too.
Zilla
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Yo! I have a brand spankin' new pair of FE166ES-R - maybe I should go for a BIB here? maybe they will be too tall - the room in question is only 7'3"
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The BIB is always a good choice. But the container will be large. As an experiment with Fostex six inch I am making a Carlson cab for the 167e. I wanted to get the size of my cabinet more manageable. But this is the BIB thread and glad it's still going. I have several BIBs up and running in four inch and would not dissuade you from the design.
I have never used a Dayton speaker. What for me would be interesting is if I could drop one of those into a non-measured BR box which is very pleasing to me with its FE127e and see if that box could be made even sweeter.
I have never used a Dayton speaker. What for me would be interesting is if I could drop one of those into a non-measured BR box which is very pleasing to me with its FE127e and see if that box could be made even sweeter.
Here's a pic of the BIB with the Dayton PA130 driver installed. It's one of my favorite speakers! I love listening to it at the office all day long. Compared to the GRS speaker I'd been listening to (an 8" full range driver in a sealed box) it's much more musical. I'd describe this little BIB as sounding very harmonic and rich. For the price it's perfect (the driver is under $20). It has an easy going laid back presentation at low and medium volumes and can go louder than expected. It actually rocks! I'm using a Dayton T amp and my Droid phone as musical source.
It can sound delicate and portrays layers and layers of midrange goodness. It can also sound a bit grungy at times but i consider this part of its personality. Certainly a fun speaker that easily bounces sound around and makes you want to dance... perfectly at home playing Reggae, Rock or Classical. Vocals sound beautiful. I'm listening now and they sound so intimate and ghostly real with human voices.
Where it lacks is ultimate transparency and treble detail. It's very forgiving and the top end sounds rolled off (I have them slightly toed in so they are somewhat off axis). Over half a dozen people have given them a listen and all respond the same way, they look at the ugly, unfinished boxes and then the music comes on and their eyes POP open.
If you build them you might want to add a super tweeter. I may put one on the rear but for now, they are really pleasant on the ears and a speaker you can listen to all day long without fatigue.
The Fostex 127e fits the same opening and can be considered an upgrade if you want a bit more of a forward sound with added detail. I'd imagine the newer Fostex offerings will work in this size BIB too but haven't modeled them yet.
It's a tidy size that just tucks into the corners. If you are curious about back horns and want to build a simple one, this speaker is a great, inexpensive first project you will keep, and enjoy, for certain.
Zilla
It can sound delicate and portrays layers and layers of midrange goodness. It can also sound a bit grungy at times but i consider this part of its personality. Certainly a fun speaker that easily bounces sound around and makes you want to dance... perfectly at home playing Reggae, Rock or Classical. Vocals sound beautiful. I'm listening now and they sound so intimate and ghostly real with human voices.
Where it lacks is ultimate transparency and treble detail. It's very forgiving and the top end sounds rolled off (I have them slightly toed in so they are somewhat off axis). Over half a dozen people have given them a listen and all respond the same way, they look at the ugly, unfinished boxes and then the music comes on and their eyes POP open.
If you build them you might want to add a super tweeter. I may put one on the rear but for now, they are really pleasant on the ears and a speaker you can listen to all day long without fatigue.
The Fostex 127e fits the same opening and can be considered an upgrade if you want a bit more of a forward sound with added detail. I'd imagine the newer Fostex offerings will work in this size BIB too but haven't modeled them yet.
It's a tidy size that just tucks into the corners. If you are curious about back horns and want to build a simple one, this speaker is a great, inexpensive first project you will keep, and enjoy, for certain.
Zilla
