thanks for a quick reply. And those models are great,
my ceiling is pretty high (almost 4 meters) so inverted version looks like a winner here.
I'm just worried about the interaction of the k slot with the back wall. I don't even have an idea how it works (the k slot I mean).
Trial and error I guess, I will have to build it and see.
cheda
my ceiling is pretty high (almost 4 meters) so inverted version looks like a winner here.
I'm just worried about the interaction of the k slot with the back wall. I don't even have an idea how it works (the k slot I mean).
Trial and error I guess, I will have to build it and see.
cheda
ok today I found birch ply! Only 21mm in stock but I'm happy now cause I was afraid that I will not find birch in local stores.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=102787
Greets!
Your English so far is fine, certainly better than many of my illegal alien neighbors or my Greek, which is zero.
With its relatively low Qts and high Le, a simple 'BIB' pipe horn seems a reasonable option if a ~70 Hz XO is acceptable:
L = ~233"
Sm = ~187.28"^2 (recommend ~11.5" W x ~16.28" D)
zdriver = ~50.55"
A-B-C = ~8.14"
Dimensions are approximate, so you can round them up as required. For basic layout: http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib-howtobuild.asp The sim shows no stuffing, so they perform much better in-room than the sim indicates once damped to suit.
Not familiar with what amps are available to you, but a decent quality prosound amp with an F3 < 5 Hz will be fine for HT and the few available VLF music, special effects CD/DVDs. If for music only, a 10 Hz cut-off is acceptable for most folks. As for how much power is required, you never want to clip the amp, so how efficient the sub winds up being, how loud you want it on average and how much dynamic headroom is required will determine it. Check with the I.B. subwoofer crowd for recommendations: http://ibsubwoofers.proboards51.com/index.cgi?
GM
plaketokofths said:
Greets!
Your English so far is fine, certainly better than many of my illegal alien neighbors or my Greek, which is zero.
With its relatively low Qts and high Le, a simple 'BIB' pipe horn seems a reasonable option if a ~70 Hz XO is acceptable:
L = ~233"
Sm = ~187.28"^2 (recommend ~11.5" W x ~16.28" D)
zdriver = ~50.55"
A-B-C = ~8.14"
Dimensions are approximate, so you can round them up as required. For basic layout: http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib-howtobuild.asp The sim shows no stuffing, so they perform much better in-room than the sim indicates once damped to suit.
Not familiar with what amps are available to you, but a decent quality prosound amp with an F3 < 5 Hz will be fine for HT and the few available VLF music, special effects CD/DVDs. If for music only, a 10 Hz cut-off is acceptable for most folks. As for how much power is required, you never want to clip the amp, so how efficient the sub winds up being, how loud you want it on average and how much dynamic headroom is required will determine it. Check with the I.B. subwoofer crowd for recommendations: http://ibsubwoofers.proboards51.com/index.cgi?
GM
Attachments
planet10...that's a big BOO- TAY
Dave, i believe we've met in the past, but it's been so long now i'm sure we wouldn't recognize each other. maybe i'll put it to the test & take a trek to the island one of these days.
but first, onto the BIB. Thnx to this forum, i've finished the plans for a short, an inverted short and the optimal tall FF165K --- decided to drop the tall build and just build prototypes of the 2 short versions. we've got the mdf, the duct seal, the drivers, and a set of fosters should the need for tweet augmenting arrive. next comes cutting time. i guess i should make plans for more modest power - 200 w monos will be extreme for these babies... i'm thinking maybe Trends TA10.1?
later,
don
Dave, i believe we've met in the past, but it's been so long now i'm sure we wouldn't recognize each other. maybe i'll put it to the test & take a trek to the island one of these days.
but first, onto the BIB. Thnx to this forum, i've finished the plans for a short, an inverted short and the optimal tall FF165K --- decided to drop the tall build and just build prototypes of the 2 short versions. we've got the mdf, the duct seal, the drivers, and a set of fosters should the need for tweet augmenting arrive. next comes cutting time. i guess i should make plans for more modest power - 200 w monos will be extreme for these babies... i'm thinking maybe Trends TA10.1?
later,
don
Hi!
One neighbor of mine have heard my BIB's but he wants a two way. I had my eyes on this Monacor bass/mid for a while. Now the question is, if tuned to fs, will the dip move down also? I'm afraid it will have less "smack" in the bass drums then.
Next question, is it possible to have higher tuning than fs. If so what's the down side?
Just looking at the graph (know that's not all
but it's a start) it look real good up to 6kHz for a hard cone.
Cheers
Hi!http://www.monacor.de/de/produktseite_monacor.php?artid=2079&spr=DE&typ=u
One neighbor of mine have heard my BIB's but he wants a two way. I had my eyes on this Monacor bass/mid for a while. Now the question is, if tuned to fs, will the dip move down also? I'm afraid it will have less "smack" in the bass drums then.
Next question, is it possible to have higher tuning than fs. If so what's the down side?
Just looking at the graph (know that's not all
but it's a start) it look real good up to 6kHz for a hard cone.Cheers
Hi!http://www.monacor.de/de/produktseite_monacor.php?artid=2079&spr=DE&typ=u
1) Yes.
2) Yes, quite a lot are. In practical terms, they simply don't go as low as they otherwise would. There are other matters too of course, but they're more of a technical issue.
FWIW, I hate kevlar cones. The midrange presentaion on every single on I've heard is vile. Harsh, screechy, hard, forward, whatever subjective phrase springs to mind really. Their objective measurements are good, subjective sonic properties less so. Paper, carbon-fibre & poly cones tend to be much better to my ears.
2) Yes, quite a lot are. In practical terms, they simply don't go as low as they otherwise would. There are other matters too of course, but they're more of a technical issue.
FWIW, I hate kevlar cones. The midrange presentaion on every single on I've heard is vile. Harsh, screechy, hard, forward, whatever subjective phrase springs to mind really. Their objective measurements are good, subjective sonic properties less so. Paper, carbon-fibre & poly cones tend to be much better to my ears.
peterbrorsson said:
Now the question is, if tuned to fs, will the dip move down also?
Next question, is it possible to have higher tuning than fs. If so what's the down side?
Just looking at the graph (know that's not all
Greets!
The 3rd harmonic dip is primarily a function of Fp, so at 30 Hz, the dip would move up referenced to T.C.'s alignment.
You can tune it however you like with the understanding that it will begin to roll off at ~SQRT(2)*Fp/4th order (24 dB/octave) and that the effective Fp is a variable based on room/boundary loading, so hard to accurately predict.
FYI, that plot is probably so smoothed it's virtually worthless WRT how it sounds. A satellite view of earth looks pretty smooth too! That said, there's a lot to like about super rigid diaphragms because it allows lots of fine tuning options for folks who like the heart attack fast transients of compression horns, electrostats. Consider that the pioneers of speaker design chose phenolic and aluminum for horn drivers and phenol/creosol loaded paper compressed under high pressure/heat into as thin, rigid, damped a diaphragm as practical for point source drivers with up to a 12 kHz BW for a 300 - 800 Hz 2nd/order XO to minimize the differences between them for a near seamless tonal 'blend'.
Bottom line, unless Monacor did the fine tuning damping or you're willing to do it, you'll probably have to use a fairly low XO point and/or steep slope to keep listening fatigue low.
GM
Oops!
Missed your reply Scott. Thanks!!
Agree with you but there must be an exception in Kevlar like you have in Aluminium as Jordan and Neofone.
I heard a RCF 5 inch kevlar bass/mid few years back which sounded excellent up to 5kHz but it's not produced anymore.
Thinking also about this one
http://www.monacor.de/en/produktseite_monacor.php?artid=4084&spr=EN&typ=u
Missed your reply Scott. Thanks!!
Agree with you but there must be an exception in Kevlar like you have in Aluminium as Jordan and Neofone.
I heard a RCF 5 inch kevlar bass/mid few years back which sounded excellent up to 5kHz but it's not produced anymore.
Thinking also about this one
http://www.monacor.de/en/produktseite_monacor.php?artid=4084&spr=EN&typ=u
Re: planet10...that's a big BOO- TAY
That would be cool... attached is a flashback to 1973 (now a lot less hair, but pretty much the same attitude) when i was living in the apartment block on the SE corner of 112th & Whyte Ave... i spent a lot of time at the swimming pool too (swimming, guarding & instructing)
The Trends is on our short list of reference D-amps (ref as in a lot of other people have them too)
dave
geetarman said:
That would be cool... attached is a flashback to 1973 (now a lot less hair, but pretty much the same attitude) when i was living in the apartment block on the SE corner of 112th & Whyte Ave... i spent a lot of time at the swimming pool too (swimming, guarding & instructing)
The Trends is on our short list of reference D-amps (ref as in a lot of other people have them too)
dave
Attachments
This is the one I rate from the Monacor range http://www.monacor.de/en/produktseite_monacor.php?artid=2083&spr=EN&typ=u -I've heard it & it's a typical carbon-fibre cone: nice & neutral sounding. Output is crisp & nicely damped, so there's little fatigue over long sessions. There might be some good kevlar cones, but as of this time, I haven't heard any, and I've heard a lot, including £10,000 B&Ws.