Hello TV Man. Haven't tried new crossovers yet. I have bought some big boxes to modify and a couple of PAS 18'' woofers. Just pondering whether to section the box and put the coaxial's and 18''s in together. There is a lot to consider on how to go about the project. Unfortunately, my technical knowledge is limited, so still researching on which way to go. I think the Beyma's need some bass augmentation as they just don't sound punchy in a decent sized box on their own. Hey, but that could be the Tannoy crossover ?
Angelfish - i think your beyma coaxs probably wont sound right until you use a different set of crossovers and it maybe why they are bass shy. As Brett has explained, the sensitivities and impedance of your low and high frequency drivers are likely to be very different. I have some HPDs and i think from memory the HF horn impedance is much higher than the LF.
If you dont have much money, why dont you go active with minidsp? I havent used them, but plan to. i have only read good things from other people, i think they're around $100. usspeaker has passive crossovers for those beymas too, but probably would cost more hey?.
Hope you get those beymas going to your satisfaction. I was interested in a pair myself and would like to hear how they perform. probably going to make some econowave/4pi style speakers in the meantime.
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Hey cangaciero,
Yes I agree with you that the properly designed passive crossovers need to be used to get the most out of the speaker. I did buy a Rane AC22 active set at 1.8k and was not happy with the sound quality at all. there was a very noticeable difference in sound quality compared to the tannoy crossover. Maybe there was something I missed, but it put me off anything less than a very high quality active. I have found a place that sells very high quality caps....Hovland coupling Musicap capacitor which are ridiculously expensive. Between the caps and inductors it will cost around $1000aus for a pair of home made versions of the crossover design put up on the Beyma site. Also, the speakers were designed for small stage monitor boxes. The size of the tannoy boxes may be a factor in the lack of bass as well ? I'd like any idea's on that as I have some 300L boxes waiting to be modified to suit the beyma alone or made with a partion to separate the 15'' and a 18'' augie.
The tannoy crossover is pretty special from what I can hear. I even bought a pair of the upgraded crossovers recently from Lockwood Audio that I have yet to try out (the tannoys are packed away until I can child proof the speaker boxes). It also has shortcomings which is why I want to try something which still uses horns/big woofer in a different format like econowave/4pi etc...
From my experience of active crossovers (very little!), the ones which use passive components (caps & resistors) don't seem to be very transparent to me. Perhaps this is due to the quality of the components, but as you mention, good quality caps/inductors are expensive. I have Reckhorn subwoofer amp with an active crossover built in and if I use this to split out the mid and highs, it sounds pretty ordinary. That's I why I wanted to try digital active cross over. I was thinking of a beringher, but the digital active crossover was nearly twice the std active crossover. Then I read about minidsp in diyaudio, it seemed to be a good solution for not much cost. I hadn't bought one yet as they weren't supporting mac, but I believe that is available now, so I plan to get one pretty soon. Apart from having number of selectable crossover types (from 6db to 48db I believe), it also does digital EQ, so you could EQ in more bass. I think there's also a thread somewhere on diyaudio about integrating it with REW so that you could use that free software together minidsp & a microphone to have it auto eq your room. But I know nothing about that, just getting started with this stuff and seem to be at the same stage as you.
Anyway these guys have played around with it with good results, so check out their thread.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/minidsp/176544-minidsp-vs-dcx2496-vs-dcx2496-modded-vs-deqx.html
Good luck!
From my experience of active crossovers (very little!), the ones which use passive components (caps & resistors) don't seem to be very transparent to me. Perhaps this is due to the quality of the components, but as you mention, good quality caps/inductors are expensive. I have Reckhorn subwoofer amp with an active crossover built in and if I use this to split out the mid and highs, it sounds pretty ordinary. That's I why I wanted to try digital active cross over. I was thinking of a beringher, but the digital active crossover was nearly twice the std active crossover. Then I read about minidsp in diyaudio, it seemed to be a good solution for not much cost. I hadn't bought one yet as they weren't supporting mac, but I believe that is available now, so I plan to get one pretty soon. Apart from having number of selectable crossover types (from 6db to 48db I believe), it also does digital EQ, so you could EQ in more bass. I think there's also a thread somewhere on diyaudio about integrating it with REW so that you could use that free software together minidsp & a microphone to have it auto eq your room. But I know nothing about that, just getting started with this stuff and seem to be at the same stage as you.
Anyway these guys have played around with it with good results, so check out their thread.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/minidsp/176544-minidsp-vs-dcx2496-vs-dcx2496-modded-vs-deqx.html
Good luck!
Bugger ! It may of been worth reading about the mini DSP before going out and spending a fortune on Mundorf silver oil caps and Mundorf inductors.
The only caps I still need to get are 15 micro farrad. Has anyone tried the big military oil caps like aerovox or auschnet ? I don't think Mundorf make a 15uf in the silver oil and a 10 + 5 will cost heaps.
The only caps I still need to get are 15 micro farrad. Has anyone tried the big military oil caps like aerovox or auschnet ? I don't think Mundorf make a 15uf in the silver oil and a 10 + 5 will cost heaps.
The rectangular GRF (and the corner GRF for that matter) were rear loaded horns, leaving the cone-loaded tweeter and front of the cone radiating directly. But they were designed for the fifteen ohm red drivers, not the heavier cone golds, and worked much better with them.
The Gold crossover tapped the inductor coil for the tweeter and used it as an auto transformer; half the resistors were damping this coil, and making sure the impedance reflected back to the amplifier was at least tolerably constant.
When I was working for Tannoy – in '71, I think – I built myself a pair of speakers, winding the voice coils, sticking the cones, everything (easier when you have all the jigs and everything on hand). With the help of the lab boys I biamped them, putting all the frequency compensation in the high impedance region, and I promise they sounded a lot better round the 1 kHz crossover region than the stock models. Unfortunately, management didn't see this as an interesting development, so I ended up with a really sweet set of personal monitors.
The Gold crossover tapped the inductor coil for the tweeter and used it as an auto transformer; half the resistors were damping this coil, and making sure the impedance reflected back to the amplifier was at least tolerably constant.
When I was working for Tannoy – in '71, I think – I built myself a pair of speakers, winding the voice coils, sticking the cones, everything (easier when you have all the jigs and everything on hand). With the help of the lab boys I biamped them, putting all the frequency compensation in the high impedance region, and I promise they sounded a lot better round the 1 kHz crossover region than the stock models. Unfortunately, management didn't see this as an interesting development, so I ended up with a really sweet set of personal monitors.
I made a pair of 15" rect GRF's a while ago - thread is on here.
Since then I've heard 3 pairs of Golds in them, my HPD's, my 3828's and a modded pair of HPD's with Lockwoods recone and 'hard' edge surround upgrade / no dust cap and Tannoy X/O upgrade as well.
The latter are the sweetest sounding IMO.
I've moved on to using the GRF's as a Backloaded horn bass unit paired with a pair of big conicals (1.5" throat) and added a cheap pair of horn tweeters.
Lots of life in the GRF's and they gel really well. I've had fellow horn users here and they've been impressed. "Shockingly good" was how one described them
Here's the conical build thread and the evolution of the GRF's with HPD's, then Eminence drivers and DIY 2nd order X/O's
Getting the horn - well 2 to be precise...
Definitely worth mucking about with.
Next project is a lower mid horn then a bass horn and a tapped low one;-)
Since then I've heard 3 pairs of Golds in them, my HPD's, my 3828's and a modded pair of HPD's with Lockwoods recone and 'hard' edge surround upgrade / no dust cap and Tannoy X/O upgrade as well.
The latter are the sweetest sounding IMO.
I've moved on to using the GRF's as a Backloaded horn bass unit paired with a pair of big conicals (1.5" throat) and added a cheap pair of horn tweeters.
Lots of life in the GRF's and they gel really well. I've had fellow horn users here and they've been impressed. "Shockingly good" was how one described them
Here's the conical build thread and the evolution of the GRF's with HPD's, then Eminence drivers and DIY 2nd order X/O's
Getting the horn - well 2 to be precise...
Definitely worth mucking about with.
Next project is a lower mid horn then a bass horn and a tapped low one;-)
I am sorry for bumping this old thread, but I have on issue that bothers me...
I would like to acquire driver like mentioned beyma, but I want second opinion about newer B&C ferrite coaxials. Namely, 15FCX76 is what I had in mind.
I have heard HPD385 in Ardens and I liked it very much, so i reckon that I will like beyma or B&C even more (or maybe not )
I would like to acquire driver like mentioned beyma, but I want second opinion about newer B&C ferrite coaxials. Namely, 15FCX76 is what I had in mind.
I have heard HPD385 in Ardens and I liked it very much, so i reckon that I will like beyma or B&C even more (or maybe not
)
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My current setup consists of Wayne`s 3pi sort-of clones, with B&C250 on Eminence H290 mated with Sonido SCW300 woofer. Overall sensitivity is around 90db.
I like sound of my current speakers very much. I think that next step in SQ would be some kind of corner horn with coaxial driver. What i would like to achieve is more dynamic/details mated with "BIG" sound of coaxials-something like Arden but with less coloration and more precise bass.
I would appreciate very much if someone could nudge me towards one of these mentioned coaxials because I am not completely sure that I am on the right track...
I like sound of my current speakers very much. I think that next step in SQ would be some kind of corner horn with coaxial driver. What i would like to achieve is more dynamic/details mated with "BIG" sound of coaxials-something like Arden but with less coloration and more precise bass.
I would appreciate very much if someone could nudge me towards one of these mentioned coaxials because I am not completely sure that I am on the right track...
They're not listed on most sites yet but expect $US500. Pro Sound Service in the US are great to deal with and supply shipping at reasonable cost but a 15" coax will be about 150/driver. Still cheaper than some secondhand Tannoy of dubious prevenance and a pair of 15's here are about 2k. That's what I sold my last HPDs for.What is the going price for these. Probably no Oz distributor and a bomb to freight from US
Yes! The single biggest improvement I found in large coaxes is to get the bass out of them. Find some large high quality pro drivers and add one or two a side, sealed, EQd and actively crossed to the coaxes and you'll get a better result than efeect faffing with exotic passive components.
I know the post is several weeks old, but I've just seen it.
I have finally pulled a trigger and bought Beyma 15cxa400Fe.
It is a heavy beast - almost 12kg !!
I am currently listening them on open baffle (fast build with some plywood scrapes), and still trying to decide what would be the best enclosure for them. So far I prefer 150l compression box, but still would like to hear other suggestions. Here is datasheet:
http://profesional.beyma.com/pdf/15CXA400FeE.pdf
I also need ideas for crossover-now it only has 2.2uf on HF driver and still plays nice.
I like the sound, but I know that it will get much better when it breaks-in properly and when it get proper crossover and enclosure.
http://postimg.org/image/4gbbqoo6j/
It is a heavy beast - almost 12kg !!
I am currently listening them on open baffle (fast build with some plywood scrapes), and still trying to decide what would be the best enclosure for them. So far I prefer 150l compression box, but still would like to hear other suggestions. Here is datasheet:
http://profesional.beyma.com/pdf/15CXA400FeE.pdf
I also need ideas for crossover-now it only has 2.2uf on HF driver and still plays nice.
I like the sound, but I know that it will get much better when it breaks-in properly and when it get proper crossover and enclosure.
http://postimg.org/image/4gbbqoo6j/
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Here is an alternative to big Tannoys! - even larger BTH...
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/242900-bth-k10a-large-dual-concentric-project.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/242900-bth-k10a-large-dual-concentric-project.html
that's one sissy speaker
You still have 6 more sissa-a on your RCA-s
Anyway, is there any suggestion what should I do with enclosure?
Pretty largish Qtc=0,56, and Fs=38(measured) would imply to go with compression box (F3 of cca 50Hz) but I believe that this speaker would benefit more from some kind of MLTQTW enclosure.
@speedysteeve7
That is a monster coax you got there. Congratulations on great loudspeakers!
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