Many alternatives out there, but quite little information on how eg. various B&C, Beyma, Eighteensound coax units actually perform in home audio environment. I took a chance and ended up with a pair of Eighteensound 15CX1000, mainly because of the compression driver they are using, and promise of a "optimized horn profile". Looking with a flash light through the dust cap shows from what I can tell, a fairly well made waveguide. Time will tell, but some heavy weight bastards they are. Still haven't really listened to them as I'm waiting on getting a pair of Hypex AS2.100 Digital to drive them.
Below a quick measurement at 1m. At 2 meters the drop in woofer response around 1kHz will be somewhat smaller. Reflections from cone?
Below a quick measurement at 1m. At 2 meters the drop in woofer response around 1kHz will be somewhat smaller. Reflections from cone?
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Agreed. Even with the Tannoys, I compared my Tannoy 12 DMT II's (back when they were stock; now they're in lower-diffraction closed boxes) to their 15 DMT II in the same room, and after level matching at 1Khz I found that I preferred the 12's on everything I threw at them in the midrange. (Admittedly, some of that could be simply me being used to the 12's, but they were not playing in my room.)
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the obvious "alternative" to the old Golds: newer Tannoy Duals! They're not that hard to find. Lots of used pro and studio cabs around. Just put 'em in a prettier box, and either redesign the xover for domestic use (not necessary in the DMT line) or use a modern DSP EQ/xover and biamp.
I do not have a lot of experience with Golds in known good condition (one set really disappointed me, but I later learned what I heard was probably a demagnetized set) but the mid-1990s to mid-2000s Duals are wonderful drivers.
No alternative for Tannoys because of the sensitivity of the LF unit, but I consider replacing the fullrangers in my OB second system with these:
http://www.ciare.com/pdf/catalogo/HX255.PDF
Do you think one would have to do a steep crossover at 4 kHz or would a lower crossover plus notch be better? Some say a notch in the midrange can do a dynamic boost, but that isn't real, I am a bit skeptic about such dirty tricks.
http://www.ciare.com/pdf/catalogo/HX255.PDF
Do you think one would have to do a steep crossover at 4 kHz or would a lower crossover plus notch be better? Some say a notch in the midrange can do a dynamic boost, but that isn't real, I am a bit skeptic about such dirty tricks.
Guys, just to throw this in, a pet idea of mine...
How about the Eminence CX range (I'm looking at the Beta 10cx)? I know the mid-basses have a peaky transition into the crossover region, but with the appropriate electronics in place, could they be worth a shot?
You'd get (somewhere near) full-range magic, but with a bigger driver.
How about the Eminence CX range (I'm looking at the Beta 10cx)? I know the mid-basses have a peaky transition into the crossover region, but with the appropriate electronics in place, could they be worth a shot?
You'd get (somewhere near) full-range magic, but with a bigger driver.
Concerning the Altec Lansing: I found the tweeter section of that driver extraordinarily smooth, what contrasts to the roughness below. Concerning the Bullfrog: I didn't notice the midrange roughness of the Altec, but in direct comparison to the Martion Orgon (with probably the best midrange unit on the planet) the difference in resolution is obvious.
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Hey Everyone,
Got the Beyma 15xa38nd's a couple of days ago. Couldn't wait to have listen, so I took one of the Tannoy's out of it's cabinet and replaced it with the Beyma. Obviously this is not the ideal set up for the Beyma as the crossovers were designed to suit the Tannoy's. However, it gave me a chance to compare apple's with apple's, so to speak.
The recommended crossover point for the Beyma's is 1.8khz and I think the Tannoy crossover is around 1k, not sure and it doesn't really matter to much at this point.
Ok, so the source was a crapola Pioneer dvd player, Australian monitor K88 amp with speedwire cable and good quality RCA leads. No pre amp or equalisation.
Straight out of the box, the beyma sounded constrained compared to the Tannoy. The Gold sounded much more airey with better fidelity in the mid and top end. The beyma sounded coney if that makes sense ? The top end was way down on the Tannoy and appeared to miss upper mid frequency's the Tannoy picked up.
I played with the level meters on the amp like a balance knob and listened to one at a time and both together. The efficiency was similar between the speakers and they sound fairly equal in output. The Tannoy just sounded better, more like a hifi speaker compared to a PA speaker. Round 1 to the Tannoy.
At this point I was not happy as $1200aus dollars for 2 speakers that were not as good as a set of 40 year old speakers made me feel pretty ordinary. There goes the custom boxes, second amp and active. Whoops !
Next day, God may have smiled upon the speakers overnight, because something happened. The more I listened, the dynamic's of the Beyma changed. I have never noticed a speaker burn in before, so what the f*** ? Yesterday I turned up the the treble annoucer thingy on the back of the box to try and get more top end out of the Beyma(Left the Tannoy mid way) and it wasn't enough. Had to hook up an equaliser to compensate for each speaker. I was thinking the engineer's didn't have a clue because compression driver was 16ohm and the dust cap is a thick material that does not appear to be very acoustically transparent. That was yesterday and this is Today.
The Beyma has had life breathed into it. The top end has arrived with a vengence to make the Tannoy sound lifeless. It sounds louder, clearer and more dynamic than the Tannoy. In fact the Tannoy now sound's honky in the upper mid range compared to the Beyma. I had never noticed any defect's or colouration in the sound of the Tannoy before ? It just doesn't sound as live or natural as the Beyma. I have found the Beyma sound to be slightly addictive and definitely enjoyable. This is without the equaliser and the treble doo hicky turned back to mid way. Personally, I don't see the need for any super tweeter or added frequency range of the treble. If anything, I am thinking of adding a second Down or rear firing Beyma low frequency driver to the planned 300+ litre cabinets. This will hopefully make one serious set of speakers.
Which brings me to a question for the knowledgeable people on here that have just laughed at this rudimentary review.
I do not want to lose the point source sound, so best way to go about adding the second bass driver. I have considered running a low pass filter to the second bass driver so that and the coxial will be fed from the same source at 4 ohms so the 2 way active can still be used. Any idea's welcomed.
So in a nut shell, The Beyma's are an excellent Tannoy alternative that are more than worth an audition. Hope this helps someone.
Got the Beyma 15xa38nd's a couple of days ago. Couldn't wait to have listen, so I took one of the Tannoy's out of it's cabinet and replaced it with the Beyma. Obviously this is not the ideal set up for the Beyma as the crossovers were designed to suit the Tannoy's. However, it gave me a chance to compare apple's with apple's, so to speak.
The recommended crossover point for the Beyma's is 1.8khz and I think the Tannoy crossover is around 1k, not sure and it doesn't really matter to much at this point.
Ok, so the source was a crapola Pioneer dvd player, Australian monitor K88 amp with speedwire cable and good quality RCA leads. No pre amp or equalisation.
Straight out of the box, the beyma sounded constrained compared to the Tannoy. The Gold sounded much more airey with better fidelity in the mid and top end. The beyma sounded coney if that makes sense ? The top end was way down on the Tannoy and appeared to miss upper mid frequency's the Tannoy picked up.
I played with the level meters on the amp like a balance knob and listened to one at a time and both together. The efficiency was similar between the speakers and they sound fairly equal in output. The Tannoy just sounded better, more like a hifi speaker compared to a PA speaker. Round 1 to the Tannoy.
At this point I was not happy as $1200aus dollars for 2 speakers that were not as good as a set of 40 year old speakers made me feel pretty ordinary. There goes the custom boxes, second amp and active. Whoops !
Next day, God may have smiled upon the speakers overnight, because something happened. The more I listened, the dynamic's of the Beyma changed. I have never noticed a speaker burn in before, so what the f*** ? Yesterday I turned up the the treble annoucer thingy on the back of the box to try and get more top end out of the Beyma(Left the Tannoy mid way) and it wasn't enough. Had to hook up an equaliser to compensate for each speaker. I was thinking the engineer's didn't have a clue because compression driver was 16ohm and the dust cap is a thick material that does not appear to be very acoustically transparent. That was yesterday and this is Today.
The Beyma has had life breathed into it. The top end has arrived with a vengence to make the Tannoy sound lifeless. It sounds louder, clearer and more dynamic than the Tannoy. In fact the Tannoy now sound's honky in the upper mid range compared to the Beyma. I had never noticed any defect's or colouration in the sound of the Tannoy before ? It just doesn't sound as live or natural as the Beyma. I have found the Beyma sound to be slightly addictive and definitely enjoyable. This is without the equaliser and the treble doo hicky turned back to mid way. Personally, I don't see the need for any super tweeter or added frequency range of the treble. If anything, I am thinking of adding a second Down or rear firing Beyma low frequency driver to the planned 300+ litre cabinets. This will hopefully make one serious set of speakers.
Which brings me to a question for the knowledgeable people on here that have just laughed at this rudimentary review.
I do not want to lose the point source sound, so best way to go about adding the second bass driver. I have considered running a low pass filter to the second bass driver so that and the coxial will be fed from the same source at 4 ohms so the 2 way active can still be used. Any idea's welcomed.
So in a nut shell, The Beyma's are an excellent Tannoy alternative that are more than worth an audition. Hope this helps someone.
I wouldn't add a second woofer in the same spot as the coax. There's no point. You'll get more bass, but it'll be lumpier.
What I would do is put each coax in a small sealed box (to acoustically control its excursion) and add 3-5 subwoofers around the room to fill in the low end. Yes, you need an additional 3-5 channels of amplification and and ideally some DSP horsepower to blend the subs. But it's the difference between smooth, even bass around the room and a lumpy mess, so IMO it's worth the cost and complexity.
I've had the B&C 15CX76 mounted infinite baffle about 5 years ago in my home. I think they sounded amazing and I'm pretty sure any Tannoy owner would be happy with them as a replacement. They do have a sweet spot though, and I'm not sure if the crossover in a tannoy would be able to attenuate the high efficiency of a 3" titainium compression driver. I have yet to hear a speaker with more clout and shear dynamics. The sound was uncolored, very detailed, and ememsely enjoyable to listen to, no matter what the style of music.
The Beyma's sound better than the gold's using a Tannoy crossover. That's all I wanted out of the comparison. A speaker that was disadvantaged out performing the Tannoy. I don't really give a banana if that's not comparing apple's with apple's for you. It validated the gamble and outlay for a Tannoy replacement. Which was the point of the exercise.
I'm glad you're happy with them (and I have a high regard for Beyma drivers and have owned at least a half dozen pairs of DCs), but the Tannoy xover will not be appropriate for any number of reasons, eg Re's for drive units and relative sensitivities.
An apples/apples comparison would be each with an appropriate xover for each.
Did you measure the Beymas with the Tannoy xover?
Yes, only because I couldn't wait for the active and boxes to be made for the Beyma's. I took one Tannoy out of it's cabinet and replaced it with a Beyma 15xa38nd. Considering the crossover point was less than ideal for the Beyma, the sound is excellent. The Beyma is more dynamic,more efficient, more life like. I have always considered the Tannoy Gold's to be a very accurate warm sounding speaker. Now they sound a bit honky in the upper midrange, limited up top and struggle under a bit of volume. They sound a little bit second rate compared to the Beyma. I'm sure the Tannerds would want to punch me for that statement. However, I hope that someone else does the same thing and comments on their impression.
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