Yay progress continues!!
I saw that I can get a student version of ABEC3 or a demo. Does demo do everything I would want other than save files?
I was going to attempt to use ABEC3 for a simulation of some FLH's I am wanting to build. Then I will move onto harder SH like projects. Although ABEC3 might prove to be difficult either way for me.
I saw that I can get a student version of ABEC3 or a demo. Does demo do everything I would want other than save files?
I was going to attempt to use ABEC3 for a simulation of some FLH's I am wanting to build. Then I will move onto harder SH like projects. Although ABEC3 might prove to be difficult either way for me.
Blessing in Disguise
The auto-horn 3d printed models that I worked with, when tested in the lab, were found to be acoustically transparent. The acoustic energy passing through the horn walls was almost as much as that coming out the mouth.
Recommend forming horn neck by NC machining it out of a block of laminated MDF for prototyping. If you have success, then a moisture resistant material should be used, as outdoor and arena PA is where the Danley design really shines.
Regards,
WHG
Well, after a month of waiting for the first printer, I cancelled. He wanted to give it a go in PLA, but lack of communication made it less tempting to let him try it.
I´m testing with a new printer now.
The auto-horn 3d printed models that I worked with, when tested in the lab, were found to be acoustically transparent. The acoustic energy passing through the horn walls was almost as much as that coming out the mouth.
Recommend forming horn neck by NC machining it out of a block of laminated MDF for prototyping. If you have success, then a moisture resistant material should be used, as outdoor and arena PA is where the Danley design really shines.
Regards,
WHG
WHG,
Acoustically transparent? What kind of material is this? Does it ring/resonate, or do you mean really transparent?
Do you know anybody that could NC machine a horn out of stacked MDF based on a 3d drawing?
As for the moisture resistance: Yes, if I wanted to use the speaker outside, I agree with you, but if I build this, it will be in the living room, not outside, except for measurements perhaps, but then on a sunny day. So I'm not too worried about this.
I'm quite impressed with those who have built a working Synergy horn. I think the principles are possible to understand, but having the stamina to actually build a prototype, tweak it until it works, and make it look good is amazing.
Acoustically transparent? What kind of material is this? Does it ring/resonate, or do you mean really transparent?
Do you know anybody that could NC machine a horn out of stacked MDF based on a 3d drawing?
As for the moisture resistance: Yes, if I wanted to use the speaker outside, I agree with you, but if I build this, it will be in the living room, not outside, except for measurements perhaps, but then on a sunny day. So I'm not too worried about this.
I'm quite impressed with those who have built a working Synergy horn. I think the principles are possible to understand, but having the stamina to actually build a prototype, tweak it until it works, and make it look good is amazing.
acoustically transparent??? what a frightening thought. Oh well, at least you'd have the looks good part covered
I was just testing a bass module in my garage which has a common wall with the house insulated with open cell foam covered by gypsum board. I swear the bass was louder on the far side of that wall.
re' stacked MDF
go to the Vectrix web site and download a trial copy of their cut3d program. You can do everything except export vectors - get a virtual trial run and an estimate of the machining time. If you can't machine it all from one face, the piece can be flipped over to work from the other side or sides.
I'm working with a guy here in NC that could do it. I don't know about shipping though. I imagine if you have a virtual prototype (you won't be able to save the file) it wouldn't be hard to convince someone relatively local to cut it for you, if you can find someone.
Jack
I was just testing a bass module in my garage which has a common wall with the house insulated with open cell foam covered by gypsum board. I swear the bass was louder on the far side of that wall.
re' stacked MDF
go to the Vectrix web site and download a trial copy of their cut3d program. You can do everything except export vectors - get a virtual trial run and an estimate of the machining time. If you can't machine it all from one face, the piece can be flipped over to work from the other side or sides.
I'm working with a guy here in NC that could do it. I don't know about shipping though. I imagine if you have a virtual prototype (you won't be able to save the file) it wouldn't be hard to convince someone relatively local to cut it for you, if you can find someone.
Jack
The whole acoustically transparent thing is not an issue. Manufacturers make horns out of ABS all the time. You can print in ABS - and add ribs and stiffeners as needed - no cost as conplexity of manufacturing is not an issue. On top of that you can add latex caulking on outside of printed horn shell to absorb any more vibrations. Wall thickness and ribs and bracing are critical to the design so don't write off printed plastic horns in general to go to CNC MDF. That is the wrong approach and escapes the beauty and cost savings of a super complex printed part with great resolution and detail accuracy. Try building a CD FLH phase plug from CNC machined MDF or plastic. The 3d printer will beat it every time for this application.
So Be It
The ABS used today is about seventy percent stronger than the FDM materials used just a few years ago when I did my lab work. However, I remain unconvinced that thermoplastic is an ideal horn-neck/phase plug material for a variety of reasons. Making phase plugs for Open Frame drivers from MDF and similar materials is fairly straightforward.
Phase Plugs
WHG
P.S. Here is a far more interesting 3-D Printing Technology for acoustic applications.
https://markforged.com/
The ABS used today is about seventy percent stronger than the FDM materials used just a few years ago when I did my lab work. However, I remain unconvinced that thermoplastic is an ideal horn-neck/phase plug material for a variety of reasons. Making phase plugs for Open Frame drivers from MDF and similar materials is fairly straightforward.
Phase Plugs
WHG
P.S. Here is a far more interesting 3-D Printing Technology for acoustic applications.
https://markforged.com/
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Baltic birch or Panzerholz, please
although I did a 1st pass trial cut OS waveguide shape with Shopbot CNC gantry router and waferboard subflooring since it was the cheapest material I could buy at Home Depot
still looking for a CAD/CAM SW chain that would let me clean up some issues before springing for Baltic birch
plenty of rez for "phase plug" for 4" cone mid drivers - but I'm not trying Synergy until I have a Summa style 2 way 1st
although I did a 1st pass trial cut OS waveguide shape with Shopbot CNC gantry router and waferboard subflooring since it was the cheapest material I could buy at Home Depot
still looking for a CAD/CAM SW chain that would let me clean up some issues before springing for Baltic birch
plenty of rez for "phase plug" for 4" cone mid drivers - but I'm not trying Synergy until I have a Summa style 2 way 1st
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Auto Horns are Different
Auto horns are operated at fundamentals ranging between 300 and 500 Hz. depending on the horn design. However, they are designed like musical instruments rather than like loudspeakers. Here the signaling energy is focused in the audible overtones and harmonics that result form complex diaphragm motion that is reinforced by horn air column resonances. Unfortunately I no longer have printouts from the spectrum analyzer to show here. Sound intensity, typically measured 4" in front of the horn mouth in an anechoic chamber, is 120 dB at a frequency weighting I do not recall.
Here is an article the contains some spectral information.
http://www.bksv.com/doc/TechnicalReview1953-2.pdf
WHG
Auto horns are operated at fundamentals ranging between 300 and 500 Hz. depending on the horn design. However, they are designed like musical instruments rather than like loudspeakers. Here the signaling energy is focused in the audible overtones and harmonics that result form complex diaphragm motion that is reinforced by horn air column resonances. Unfortunately I no longer have printouts from the spectrum analyzer to show here. Sound intensity, typically measured 4" in front of the horn mouth in an anechoic chamber, is 120 dB at a frequency weighting I do not recall.
Here is an article the contains some spectral information.
http://www.bksv.com/doc/TechnicalReview1953-2.pdf
WHG
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I remembered your terrible experience so I went ahead and got Simplify3d - it's not freeware, but at $140 - it was plug and play.
I installed the software, installed the printer driver, everything connected and worked. The software generated the g-code, lets me control temps, and feed rates etc, generated supports and I was printing right away with no futzing around. The only thing I had to play with was adjusting the bed temperature to get the PLA to stick.
$140 well spent. I highly recommend this software package to anyone new or familiar with 3d printing.
https://www.simplify3d.com/
I made a fractal Koch vase the first time with decent results.
The Celestions are now available for purchase. I will be buying some in a month. Although I will be building a few mid/tweeter SH's for trial to learn from. I will be using normal 3.3" drivers and 4" Celestions.
I was always curious why we couldnt get the throat transitions printed for each CD?
I know it was mentioned somewhere and I was curious to know more.
I was always curious why we couldnt get the throat transitions printed for each CD?
I know it was mentioned somewhere and I was curious to know more.
For a synergy horn a friend build I made a simple solution.
I made thin printed parts that was mounted on the wooden horn in the throat.
These were then sprayed with filler and sanded.
These pictures explains it: https://flic.kr/s/aHskscphiV
His mounting plate was cut with cnc and incorporates the transition from cd to horn but it could be done with a router and a circle jig. In the center of the mounting plate a larger hole can be cut and a plug that fits that hole is printed with the initial transition from cd to horn.
This approach takes away the need for a large build plate and complex long prints with overhang.
I made thin printed parts that was mounted on the wooden horn in the throat.
These were then sprayed with filler and sanded.
These pictures explains it: https://flic.kr/s/aHskscphiV
His mounting plate was cut with cnc and incorporates the transition from cd to horn but it could be done with a router and a circle jig. In the center of the mounting plate a larger hole can be cut and a plug that fits that hole is printed with the initial transition from cd to horn.
This approach takes away the need for a large build plate and complex long prints with overhang.
Not quite sure what you did Nissep but it does sound like what I was thinking. I remember someone had a transition from CD to horn made by 3d printing. I thought they were selling them but maybe not. I will stick with just making my own but have a very small build plate would be nice.
I have a few projects to finish but then I will tackle my first SH.
Thanks XRK971 as usual. I need to review that thread again and remind myself of everything I have forgotten.
I have a few projects to finish but then I will tackle my first SH.
Thanks XRK971 as usual. I need to review that thread again and remind myself of everything I have forgotten.
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