It's not so surprising that DVD players can be had for under $80. Even ones producing excellent sound. This is a little hard for hard-core audiophiles to swallow, but remember they are little more than special purpose computers. Moore's Law has not been repealed yet!
As for the analog components, even their cost is driven down by high volume production - sell enough AD797's and they will start approaching TL071 prices. Ditto for BG and Xicon caps.
As for the analog components, even their cost is driven down by high volume production - sell enough AD797's and they will start approaching TL071 prices. Ditto for BG and Xicon caps.
Sam9: interesting point of view. There is also the fact the CD's of any kind are being loaded with royalties to Sony and Philips, who invented the CD system back in the 70's and 80's. But still today a producer of a CD player must pay royalties, whereas anyone can produce a DVD player, there are no royalties to pay.
A comment on the quality of the player i was working on: The mechanical and component quality seems excellent, it even has a nice switched mode PSU - like any other DVD player - however the picture quality was not the best i have seen. But then what can you expect in that price range.....?
Anyway i would only argue to buy one of these guys for music reproduction (playback of CD's and music DVD's).
It is certainly to be considered a useable alternative to a pricy CD player.
A comment on the quality of the player i was working on: The mechanical and component quality seems excellent, it even has a nice switched mode PSU - like any other DVD player - however the picture quality was not the best i have seen. But then what can you expect in that price range.....?
Anyway i would only argue to buy one of these guys for music reproduction (playback of CD's and music DVD's).
It is certainly to be considered a useable alternative to a pricy CD player.
I bet it will also play DTS-CD's; not many ever made which is a shame. Also 24/96 CD's like those issued by www.classicrecords.com and DVD-Audio (probably only the DTS or DD tracks).
There is a small industry for CD and DVD player mods. The mods cost more than your player! Just the same, if there is any room for improvement (there may not be), I would imagine it to be in analog section down-stream from the DAC.
There is a small industry for CD and DVD player mods. The mods cost more than your player! Just the same, if there is any room for improvement (there may not be), I would imagine it to be in analog section down-stream from the DAC.
Cheap, Quick And Easy........
Those Wolfson DACs are good sounding indeed.
Grounding the crystal oscillator cans also improves sonics.
Eric.
I changed all the electros (psu secondary, decoder pcb, audio output pcb) to Hitano low esr types on exactly this model and got sonically quite outstanding results.Lars Clausen said:
Those Wolfson DACs are good sounding indeed.
Grounding the crystal oscillator cans also improves sonics.
Eric.
Warning !
Busy with Mustek 560 at the moment. Changing caps in the switched PSU to Pana FC does have a significant positive influence.
DAC chip is a DA1193, couldn't find a datasheet unfortunately, not even at the site of the manufacturer.
!!!! Advice for people who want to mod switched PSU's even when you only want to mod the secondary side of the PSU : PLEASE pull the powercord when the player is on to draw the last voltage out of the caps at the switching primaries !!!!! Those voltages are lethal !!! To be sure it is better to wait half an hour before you start the job. Even then pull the board out by the sides and measure the voltage at the caps when it is out. This is really a job for the experienced or professionals, leave it to them if you are unsure or if you are a novice. There is a risk involved not worth to be taken.
Better too safe than too sorry ...
Busy with Mustek 560 at the moment. Changing caps in the switched PSU to Pana FC does have a significant positive influence.
DAC chip is a DA1193, couldn't find a datasheet unfortunately, not even at the site of the manufacturer.
!!!! Advice for people who want to mod switched PSU's even when you only want to mod the secondary side of the PSU : PLEASE pull the powercord when the player is on to draw the last voltage out of the caps at the switching primaries !!!!! Those voltages are lethal !!! To be sure it is better to wait half an hour before you start the job. Even then pull the board out by the sides and measure the voltage at the caps when it is out. This is really a job for the experienced or professionals, leave it to them if you are unsure or if you are a novice. There is a risk involved not worth to be taken.
Better too safe than too sorry ...
tiroth said:
it depends on what display you have. I have a panasonic rp-62 (with a faroudja chip set tho. I am not sure if they are the same), hooked to a pioneer plasma tv which does its own video processing (including 3:2 pulldown).
The picture is slightly better with the panasonic in progressive mode. It seems to me that if the video feed can be in all digital, it makes more sense to let the display do all the work.
I got one of these el-cheapo ones from walmart (norcent brand .. never heard of em before!)
Got it for about $50 CAD ($35-$40 USD)
Sounds decent for CDs, but even if its a little scratched it has TONS of pops. Very annoying as sadly most of my cds are scratched
(small incident with sand .. heh)
DVDs I can't vouch for since I only have a couple music DVDs, and no movies.
Got it for about $50 CAD ($35-$40 USD)
Sounds decent for CDs, but even if its a little scratched it has TONS of pops. Very annoying as sadly most of my cds are scratched
(small incident with sand .. heh)DVDs I can't vouch for since I only have a couple music DVDs, and no movies.
Vibration noise at higher rotational speed.
My Digitrex thing I got for AUD$99 at the end of last year has one disadvantage compared to a normal CD player. If the disc is out of balance it sometimes makes a rattling sound because it rotates at approximately 2000 rpm, not the 500 - 200 rpm like a normal player. Sounds great though.
Also, I recently tried out an MP3 disc in it and was quite surprised with the results. Not the absolutest highest of "fi", but plenty good enough for in the car etc. Actually, will these players cope with a variety of MP3 bitrates or even variable bitrate, or do they only work with one standard? I just copied the files off a front-of-pc-magazine CD so I don't know what the bitrate of them was.
My Digitrex thing I got for AUD$99 at the end of last year has one disadvantage compared to a normal CD player. If the disc is out of balance it sometimes makes a rattling sound because it rotates at approximately 2000 rpm, not the 500 - 200 rpm like a normal player. Sounds great though.
Also, I recently tried out an MP3 disc in it and was quite surprised with the results. Not the absolutest highest of "fi", but plenty good enough for in the car etc. Actually, will these players cope with a variety of MP3 bitrates or even variable bitrate, or do they only work with one standard? I just copied the files off a front-of-pc-magazine CD so I don't know what the bitrate of them was.
I compared the sound of my 80$ model (from the start of this thread) with another well known 2000 US$ CD player, to find the level for sound quality. This 2000 $ machine is among the better options in this price range.
The (upgraded) Scansonic did not have quite the attack and precision of the 2000 $ player, but it surely had the musicality, and live atmosphere. Definition in the top frequencies was as good as the 2000 $ machine. Bass was a (tiny) bit boomy on the 80$ DVD player (around 280 $ with upgrade parts and all).
Maybe some mechanical damping would do the trick .. ? I thinll think there is some trail to explore on this one ..
Now i have my eye on another cheap DVD player (100 US$) with progressive scan.
http://www.prc-data.dk/ProduktFrame.asp?produktid=32896286
The (upgraded) Scansonic did not have quite the attack and precision of the 2000 $ player, but it surely had the musicality, and live atmosphere. Definition in the top frequencies was as good as the 2000 $ machine. Bass was a (tiny) bit boomy on the 80$ DVD player (around 280 $ with upgrade parts and all).
Maybe some mechanical damping would do the trick .. ? I thinll think there is some trail to explore on this one ..
Now i have my eye on another cheap DVD player (100 US$) with progressive scan.
http://www.prc-data.dk/ProduktFrame.asp?produktid=32896286
DVD players arer known to play back music CD`s better because the transport and tracking is built to better specs than a regular CD player.
Its better to buy a cheap DVD player than a mid priced CD player....as I have tested quite a few.....the best one has been the panasonic so far in my opinion.
DIRT®
Its better to buy a cheap DVD player than a mid priced CD player....as I have tested quite a few.....the best one has been the panasonic so far in my opinion.
DIRT®
there are only
a few dvd player factories around.....
Lasonic is one of them and I think Samsung is also amongst the 'happy few'
And Apex ofcourse:when they just started, they had models that contained software you could change from the screen menu, you could set the play area (usa, europe etc..etc so it would accept any world dvd format )
Lasonic is a story by itself, they have made stuff for other co's for many years now and some of it was so crappy, as soon as you unpacked it, it fell apart.
but their dvd products are another story it seems.
Mintek players (they make these) are pretty good, sturdy and have some nice software plus they are easy to accept/convert other dvd's than just #1
J-P
a few dvd player factories around.....
Lasonic is one of them and I think Samsung is also amongst the 'happy few'
And Apex ofcourse:when they just started, they had models that contained software you could change from the screen menu, you could set the play area (usa, europe etc..etc so it would accept any world dvd format )
Lasonic is a story by itself, they have made stuff for other co's for many years now and some of it was so crappy, as soon as you unpacked it, it fell apart.
but their dvd products are another story it seems.
Mintek players (they make these) are pretty good, sturdy and have some nice software plus they are easy to accept/convert other dvd's than just #1
J-P
So the general consensus (although i'm sure its very widely open for debate!) is that its better to get a (for example) $1000 dvd player than a $1000 cd player?
I'm probably going to be in the market for a cd player sometime next yera, but if getting a dvd player for the same price is better quality, then i'd go for that any day!
I'm probably going to be in the market for a cd player sometime next yera, but if getting a dvd player for the same price is better quality, then i'd go for that any day!
My opinion on this matter is, that it's not so simple.
To get the best quality for the lowest price, i would say buy a cheap CD or DVD player, and upgrade the analog stage and clock.
And as this thread argues, you may get a DVD good for sound at very very low cost.
However you mat very well find a bad 1000 $ DVD (i know a couple of those), but also you can find a good 1000 $ CD player.
But i'd still go for a much cheaper CD or DVD, and then spend a couple 100 bucks upgrading it. This way you will definitely get a better result than any of the 1000 $ off the shelf players.
To get the best quality for the lowest price, i would say buy a cheap CD or DVD player, and upgrade the analog stage and clock.
And as this thread argues, you may get a DVD good for sound at very very low cost.
However you mat very well find a bad 1000 $ DVD (i know a couple of those), but also you can find a good 1000 $ CD player.
But i'd still go for a much cheaper CD or DVD, and then spend a couple 100 bucks upgrading it. This way you will definitely get a better result than any of the 1000 $ off the shelf players.
The cheap DVD player I am impressed with is the KOSS unit at Costco for $80 CAD. It has progressive scan, is hackable, has karaoke and can shift between NTSC and PAL. The best is that it can handle low bit rate VBR VCDs that have APEX1500 and Pioneer 525 begging for mercy with tons of dropouts and stutter.
In my experience the DAC needs work and you can clearly hear the shortcomings. If you use the digital out and outboard DAC either separate or built in on a HT receiver, you can't go wrong.
In my experience the DAC needs work and you can clearly hear the shortcomings. If you use the digital out and outboard DAC either separate or built in on a HT receiver, you can't go wrong.
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