Stage Accompany: the end or not?

[elac310]

It seems to me that one could produce the SA tweeter merely by having one in hand to refer to... in fact i think I could make one from memory, given time and the right equipment...

But still it was possibly the best tweeter i have ever heard... not that I have heard every tweeter... I did modify mine a bit, making them flatter and cleaner...

_-_-bear

Hello Bear,

What did your "surgery" consist of?
Just curious...

Chris.

 

[bear]

I can't really say here in a public forum - it is my work to do things like that.

I'd like to be paid well for such things, but few seem to really care - good finishes and glossy paper seem to be more important for most companies. Few seem genuinely concerned about other matters. Otoh, people do hear things very differently, so it's hard to say in some absolute sense what is genuinely "better" - or put another way, what one person hears as "better" another, or many others may not agree about, or might not notice one way or the other...

So, in short WTF do I know?

_-_-bear

 

[Webbie]

Hello,

I'm glad to inform you that for those who are seeking original SA recone sets for there SA ribbons and SA drivers the recone sets are available again from Stage Acoustic (the new SA, the old SA (Stage Accompany) went bankrupted last year).

Available again are:

• original replacement sets for the SA8525, SA8526 and SA8535 Ribbon Compact Driver.
• original recone kits for the SA1202, SA1203, SA1205, SA1222, SA1503, SA1513, SA1523 woofers.
• complete new original SA1202, SA1203, SA1205, SA1222, SA1503, SA1513 and SA1523 woofers.
• complete new original SA8535 Ribbon Compact Drivers in the following versions: Standard, Champ, Performer, Master, Screen, Prompter and Genesis.

For more information:

Stage Acoustic
Lagedijkerweg 13
1742NB Schagen
The Netherlands

Phone: +31 (0) 224-712035
E-mail: info@stageacoustic.nl
Web: http://www.stageacoustic.nl


Greetz Webbie...

 

[Webbie]

Hello,

Because, all the inventory with all the spareparts is gone. All the blueprints are gone with the servers. I do not no how this new company will maintain the service of old SA equipment without the inside knowledge, maybe they have a photographic memory????

So be aware!

Regards,

G. Stoker

Rubbish, ds23man is by far honest in his posts.

I can ensure you that SA from Schagen is really alive and kicking.
All the data that matters is still in the hands of the two old SA engineers.

Thru SA from Schagen the SA8535 Ribbon Compact Driver and all SA woofers are again available, and the recone kits for them.
Also the complete complete SA enclosure lines can be ordered again: Champ, Performer, Master, Screen, Prompter and Genesis.

All equipment is again produced in The Netherlands under high(er) standards.
(I've visited the production hall a few weeks ago, and was very impressed about the quality of the products)


Greetz Webbie...

 

[Webbie]

Hello,

Well,

In the end the ribbon driver was not designed by SA at all, it was done by Philips, based on their isofase tweeter. Philips produced the ribbons for SA! Philips sold Blue boxes with their own name on it.

Regards,

Gerhard

Indeed the SA8520 was in fact the Philips RSQ8P isofase tweeter, but SA made it road-proof thru the SA8525/26 and later on the SA8535.

The SA8520 was a little bit to small (30Watts) for use in a PA envirement.
The SA8520 diaphragms didn't last long in an Blue Box.

So SA (NOT Philips) designed the bigger brother the SA8525 (60watts), and after that the SA8526 (also 60Watts, but with a higher efficienty).

The last and final step was the Neodym SA8535 Ribbon Compact driver with a even higher efficienty.

The first diaphragms where indeed made bij Philips, but after a while SA produced the diaphragms in house in a cleanroom at the production plant in Hoorn.
A lot has been improved on the diaphragms over the years.


Philips did sold the Blue Box with there name on it, BUT SA developed and produced the complete drivers and enclosures.
The partnumber of the Philips "Blue Box" was: VN3100|25

These enclosures are very rare, I have a set at home

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

Greetz Webbie...

 

[Webbie]

Hello,

The Philips VN3100|25 was nothing more then a SA Blue Box (SA4525) with a different LED-panel.
All drivers and amps had the SA logo on it.

Philips had in that time no Pro Audio line, so for the few projects where Philips needed PA equipment Philips asked SA to produce PA equipment with the Philips logo on it.

The Perfomer Series van SA where also in that time on the market with the Philips logo, but also very rare.
At Disney Resort Paris the SA Performer Series where used with the Philips logo on it.


The Philips VN3100|25;

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

The Philips VN3100|25 above to original SA Blue Boxes;

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

Greetz Webbie...

 

[tiefbassuebertr]

interesing news.
About this forum there are to see more pics, especially from the amp section of this powered loudspeakers. The main capacitors are top quality versions from EVOX-RIFA
Videohifi Forum

 

[Webbie]

Hello,

I'm glad to inform you that SA Vintage has now a international forum.

If you like you can join the forum thru the link below:

404 - Not Found


Greetz Webbie...

 

[Webbie]

Hello,

I'm glad to inform you that SA Vintage has a international forum.

If you like you can join this forum thru the link below:

SA Vintage Forum - Index


Greetz Webbie...

 

[tiefbassuebertr]

Websites arround Stage Accompany

arround Stage Accompany and vintage old Philips ribbons there are various websites in the meantime
Rooster Ribbon - Home
SA-Vintage
stage acoustic
SA Vintage Forum - Index
http://sa-vintage.com/Downloads/sa-rcd-specs.pdf
Èíñòàëëÿöèè ñ èñïîëüçîâàíèåì îáîðóäîâàíèÿ Stage Accompany (Listing Stage Accompany user's arround the world)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/swap-meet/139250-philips-rsq8p-ribbon-tweeter-sale.html (predecessor SA Ribbon)
Buisvriendelijk ontwerp met Philips RSQ8P en Davis 20TK8
Magnetostatic (Magnetostatics Overview)

Beyma's air motion transformer (AMT) TPL150 (TPL 150) could also a good choice.
http://www.beyma.de/fileadmin/seiten/download/pdf/Beyma_professional/TPL150Datenblatt.pdf
Tweeter "Air Motion Transformer" (AMT) Beyma TPL150
Beyma - TPL 150 - Description - proaudioguide.com | connect-access
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/142015-my-open-baffle-dipole-beyma-tpl-150-a.html
http://www.beyma.de/fileadmin/seiten/download/pdf/Beyma_2010/TPL-150_en.pdf
Tweeter "Air Motion Transformer" (AMT) Beyma TPL150

Interesting to know would be to know the sound difference between the SA8535 and Beyma's TPL-150" (AMT)

in this case also this wensite could be of interest:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...uency-loudspeakers-where-buy.html#post2311848

 

[elac310]

Quote "Interesting to know would be to know the sound difference between the SA8535 and Beyma's TPL-150" (AMT)"


In my set up and listening environment, the SA8535 (without horn) and the TPL150H (with horn) sound quite similar despite the different technologies employed. The horn does not play a major role as regards the overall sonic signature. Both are absolutely smooth and neutral and the Beyma has perhaps a slightly crisper sound.
The SA8535 is my favorite but until a find a trick to get more sensitivity out of it (maybe a step down transformer used in reverse mode or a good horn design that avoids irregularities in the frequ response), I'm using the Beymas which give me the sentivity I need with a lower voltage.

Chris.

 

[tiefbassuebertr]

Quote "Interesting to know would be to know the sound difference between the SA8535 and Beyma's TPL-150" (AMT)"


In my set up and listening environment, the SA8535 (without horn) and the TPL150H (with horn) sound quite similar despite the different technologies employed. The horn does not play a major role as regards the overall sonic signature. Both are absolutely smooth and neutral and the Beyma has perhaps a slightly crisper sound.
The SA8535 is my favorite but until a find a trick to get more sensitivity out of it (maybe a step down transformer used in reverse mode or a good horn design that avoids irregularities in the frequ response), I'm using the Beymas which give me the sentivity I need with a lower voltage.
Chris.

Thank you very much for this advices.

P.S. (Off-Topic): Do you know dome tweeters with efficiency 98-100 db/1W (8 ohms) 1m (down to 3.000 Hz at least) ?
If yes, please post your reply here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/155885-99db-dome-tweeter-without-titan-without-horn.html
have a look also there:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...glockenklang-phenol-99db-based-rcf-tw116.html

 

[tiefbassuebertr]

which successor model of the SA8535 is now in the Griffin speakers?
Griffin Audio USA LLC

 

[bear]

Very little real information on the site - looks like someone who is "in" with the USA pro recording scene already...

Would be nice to know what tweeter they are using...

_-_-

 

[tiefbassuebertr]

Quote "Interesting to know would be to know the sound difference between the SA8535 and Beyma's TPL-150" (AMT)"
In my set up and listening environment, the SA8535 (without horn) and the TPL150H (with horn) sound quite similar despite the different technologies employed. The horn does not play a major role as regards the overall sonic signature. Both are absolutely smooth and neutral and the Beyma has perhaps a slightly crisper sound.
The SA8535 is my favorite but until a find a trick to get more sensitivity out of it (maybe a step down transformer used in reverse mode or a good horn design that avoids irregularities in the frequ response), I'm using the Beymas which give me the sentivity I need with a lower voltage.
Chris.

The same impressions I have get from some other music lovers, which have had the possibility for compare. AMT in generall sounds slightly more crisper than flat diaphragms. An additional disadvantage by AMT tweeters could be the not so great reliability over a long time of use.

Now an other question:
The SA8535 was used in various outlines - I know two versions (see attached images):
1) Blue outline as top (perhaps driver outline for horn mounting?)
2) Face plate (again two versions) for front-mounting

Which parts I must additional looking for to get one of this showed versions (The version from picture number 5 and 6 with the circular recess for mounting as close as possible to the '12 until '15 bass-midrange I would prefer)?
Thank you very much for your advices.

 

[bear]

I believe the lower left image shows the blue one with a matched faceplate on the front... I may be incorrect though...

the lower right image shows the diaphragm alone...

_-_-bear

 

[elac310]

Bear is right.
"Naked", the SA8535 is just the blue element shown on picture 1. It has sometimes been mounted naked on early Stage Accompany stage monitors (and also other later cabinets as it seems): the signal wire then needs to go back into the cabinet to the Xover or general speaker posts; since this may not be the most elegant solution, they used a plate for studio monitors and other applications (the funny shaped one designed to associate the SA8535 with two 12" woofers as on pic 6); I ordered my SAs originally with those plates but used 15" instead, hence the distance between the speakers on pic 5 because the radius is different and the plate does not accommodate the larger woofers. Any solid DIY square faceplate will do, as on pic 3 and 4. The blue SA8535 can also be mounted on the back of a horn SA designed specially for this speaker, and used when more sensitivity is required (sound reiforcement etc.); AFAIK, Limmer Horns in Germany was the only company to also offer a horn specifically for the SA8535. Never tried it with horn myself since in HIFI use, I probably would have needed equalization.
You can perhaps still get horns and the funny shaped plates from the SA company successor stageacoustic.nl (or from Alcons Audio's subsidiary called Rooster Ribbon/SA8535.com) or from SA-vintage.com .

Chris

 

[elac310]

Tiefbasuebertr:
"An additional disadvantage by AMT tweeters could be the not so great reliability over a long time of use."

I haven't experienced nor heard of any particular intrinseque reliability issue so far, whether for electrostats like the SA8535 or AMTs like Beyma's or Heil's, that is in normal HIFI use (even at high levels); two of my close friends work themselves or have worked with Heil AMTs, and they would have told me. The issues I've heard (from users themselves) concerned certain ribbon tweeters where suspension was getting rapidly weak and distended, distorsion at higher SPLs etc.). Just my own experience and hear-say, which is not to be generalised of course.

 

[bear]

elac310, I think you meant to say "electrodynamic" not electrostats...

...but I think the original AMT diaphragms could be shredded by excess power, and sometimes the foil came off the plastic diaphragm... I seem to vaguely recall seeing the original diaphragm and that it seemed to be some sort of polyethylene like plastic, not a mylar thing... but that is very very long ago now, so my recollection may be faulty.

_-_-bear

 

[tiefbassuebertr]

Bear is right.
"Naked", the SA8535 is just the blue element shown on picture 1. It has sometimes been mounted naked on early Stage Accompany stage monitors (and also other later cabinets as it seems): the signal wire then needs to go back into the cabinet to the Xover or general speaker posts; since this may not be the most elegant solution, they used a plate for studio monitors and other applications (the funny shaped one designed to associate the SA8535 with two 12" woofers as on pic 6); I ordered my SAs originally with those plates but used 15" instead, hence the distance between the speakers on pic 5 because the radius is different and the plate does not accommodate the larger woofers. Any solid DIY square faceplate will do, as on pic 3 and 4. The blue SA8535 can also be mounted on the back of a horn SA designed specially for this speaker, and used when more sensitivity is required (sound reiforcement etc.); AFAIK, Limmer Horns in Germany was the only company to also offer a horn specifically for the SA8535. Never tried it with horn myself since in HIFI use, I probably would have needed equalization.
You can perhaps still get horns and the funny shaped plates from the SA company successor stageacoustic.nl (or from Alcons Audio's subsidiary called Rooster Ribbon/SA8535.com) or from SA-vintage.com .
Chris

Thank you for this explanation