Wires are crossed, I was talking about audio at that point - I'm happy with how cars are dealt with ...
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Thanks for bringing that upTalkin' about good sounds, engine sounds, then going by this video, Amazing Engine Sounds Compilation Video - YouTube, I'm an Aston Martin man - I like a solid rasp, with lots of bite ....
.RIDE: Aston Martin DB5 - driven as intended
I grew up with the above sounds from the back seat..lots of trips to Sydney...late at night...100mph.
My old man also had a favourite local 10 mile lap to give his friends a thrill...100mph.
Quickest with me in the back was touching 140 for a short period...the road vibrations, the power, the force involved and...that sound.
Hearing the clip brings back fond memories....note the rasp at 3:58....I just need to work out how to rip the sound and burn it to cd.
It will be interesting to hear how my (quite capable) stereo reproduces experiences.
Dan.
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I see it as a very good result, Jan.
Only a direct drive, and not just any model but the better ones, would be able to beat that.
Althouh of course that's only one of several important aspects of a TT.
Don't fall for it, Jan.
I understand pursuit of excellence, but there are limits, and if you cross them, it starts to become art for art's sake. If people spent more time just listening, we'd have a much better educated audiophile gang.
Or we can resort to the esoterica. Try passing the loose, middle end of your power cable through a pot of cold water, that might cool it down.
I understand pursuit of excellence, but there are limits, and if you cross them, it starts to become art for art's sake. If people spent more time just listening, we'd have a much better educated audiophile gang.
Or we can resort to the esoterica. Try passing the loose, middle end of your power cable through a pot of cold water, that might cool it down.
Nige, if you take a look at Perraux service manuals for their power amps, you will find your beloved Hitachi model circuit driving them.
Which leads me to believe that the only thing Perraux actually did was to series/parallel 3 pairs of Hitach power MOSFETs, whereas Hitachi never went above 2 pairs. And possibly beefed up the PSU as well.
Which leads me to believe that the only thing Perraux actually did was to series/parallel 3 pairs of Hitach power MOSFETs, whereas Hitachi never went above 2 pairs. And possibly beefed up the PSU as well.
Hi,
Thank you for the info.
Tom's someone I'll never forget. Such an incredible gentleman.
His latest work is based on a book on mechanical impedance matching I sent him.
We never talked much yet you knew he just wanted to do the best he could, not for money, not for his glory but for you his customer.
Re cars, I suppose not many of you know the Porsche 914/6 GT?
Now that's German car with a soul without the Italian quirks.
Porsche Fascination - Discover the rare 914-6 GT - YouTube
The engine on mine was replaced for a 2.7L Carrera one. More than 300BHP in a car that weighed 550kg dry.
If you wanted to beat a motor bike on the stop lights then this was it. 0-100km/h in 3.4 seconds flat. And you were still just in second gear....
A Bauhaus car if there ever was one.
Cheers,
Thank you for the info.
Tom's someone I'll never forget. Such an incredible gentleman.
His latest work is based on a book on mechanical impedance matching I sent him.
We never talked much yet you knew he just wanted to do the best he could, not for money, not for his glory but for you his customer.
Re cars, I suppose not many of you know the Porsche 914/6 GT?
Now that's German car with a soul without the Italian quirks.
Porsche Fascination - Discover the rare 914-6 GT - YouTube
The engine on mine was replaced for a 2.7L Carrera one. More than 300BHP in a car that weighed 550kg dry.
If you wanted to beat a motor bike on the stop lights then this was it. 0-100km/h in 3.4 seconds flat. And you were still just in second gear....
A Bauhaus car if there ever was one.
Cheers,
The Tecnodec TT is not equiped with variable rpm regulation, which the optional (yet rather pricey) HR power-supply unit does have.
Looking at the plots :
[ (331/3 - 33.12) / 331/3 ] x 100 = 0.64% deviation from the optimum speed.
Merely by setting average rpm from 33.21 to 331/3 would drop that by 2/3d to about 1/4%.
(I must be reading graphs too often)
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Hi,
Other factors being what in your opinion?
FWIW, the Nottingham Analogue TTs could run for hours at exact speed with no motor at all.
IMHO people should look at TT design in a more holistic way instead of focusing on single details.
Much in the same way a system should work synergistically as opposed to a collection of thrown in bits and pieces and a pair of crossed fingers....
Cheers,
Other factors being what in your opinion?
FWIW, the Nottingham Analogue TTs could run for hours at exact speed with no motor at all.
IMHO people should look at TT design in a more holistic way instead of focusing on single details.
Much in the same way a system should work synergistically as opposed to a collection of thrown in bits and pieces and a pair of crossed fingers....
Cheers,
Jan, have you confirmed and reconfirmed that the signal freq of the test record track you use is exactly what it should be?
If yes, let the TT run for ~30min to let bearing and oil warm-up, then take a measurement.
If it’s again running a bit slow as your filtered data shows, then first thank God that the TT has a DC motor and second, adjust the DC supply for precise 33.3RPM.
George
Hi,
Other factors being what in your opinion?
...
In no particular order of importance, I'd look at:
Speed accuracy and ability to adjust it to nil as per stroboscope,
Wow and flutter
Rimble measurements as per DIN 45500
Unweighted and weighted S/N ratio as per DIN 45500
Type and quality of suspension of the subchassis
Chassis quality and mass.
If it's supplied with a tonearm by the same manufacturer, that would be a separate lookover, I'd go for a gimbal suspended low mass arm in general.
If it also has a cartridge supplied, I'd look it over, but more importantly, I'd spend some hours listening to it. Chances are that I'd eventually end up with an Ortofon model, but I would still give others a fair chance. For example, two friends are the national distributors for Grado cartridges, and another friend imports Audio Technica catridges, so I have a pool to borrow from.
Lastly, I'd pay particular attention to the electrical matching of the cartridge to the preamp or integrated amp.
From the above list, my Dual falls short on the chassis quality (a bit) and on its mass (quite a bit, but is strong on subchassis suspension. Unlike quite a few others which use 4 point suspension, mine uses the idesl 3 point suspension, based on classic springs. My dad, who was a mechanical engineer, who designed gear boxes and taught mechanical elements for like 25 years always said 3 point suspensipn, if done right, is the best possible distribution of forces, and I took his word for it. Never looked back.
Ovwerall, I'm very happy with it, but I'm still thinking about having a custom chassis made for it, from solid oak wood.
More interesting/boring TD145 facts. Last night on his return my son reminded me that I had fitted LP12 springs and rubber pieces to the TD145 some years ago. I think my son complained it wobbled in a way that interacted with warps so did it for that. The LP12 mass is slightly higher so it makes for a stiff and well controlled suspension. I have a hunch it is doing a bit of Linn magic also. I seem to remember from tests 6Hz for a Linn. Trying the ultimate test I reset the arm resonance at 8Hz ( DL110 8 cu ). Absolutely no problems . I can only conclude the spread of the resonance is small. I tried EQ to the bass and found it has no equivalent effect. It sounds bloated and foggy. Setting LF resonance lower just opens the sound stage and allows bass notes to open. I suspect it has rather remarkable mid range effects also and aids stability. This is like a car sitting well on the road and not an electrical output from the PU in Fo or Q influence.
One thing Linn said years ago was on an LP12 records seem less worn out. As anyone can see the TD145 and Linn LP12 are 90 % the same turntable ( this one 95% ). This sorted TD145 is the same or better. Years ago when I thought my ex wife had cancer for the third time I was in Baltimore. My hi fi guru friend who's alignment gauge I mentioned earlier was rather concern as I had just bough $127 worth of LP's in a Hippy shop . " Are you over compensating Nige ? ". All from the bargain bin except a Mono St Pepper for $29. Was more or less $1 a piece. All of these records were grade D . My friend though them junk. On the TD145 all are acceptable. Somehow the noise and the music are separate. What my friend didn't realize is all were first or early pressings. To my ears nothing is as good and if only 30% were OK that's fine. 90 % were fine to excellent and 10% I will never see again so good to have a copy. The Denon's small diamond probably is finding new groove to play. The Lazar turntable certainly can .
I don't have the unusual M2 hardware for the mounting. I have done what the Garrot Brothers preferred. I have mounted the PU with a small amount of Blu Tak. My ears tell me they were not wrong. So neutral. I had no choice anyway.
Thorens quotes rumble at about 45 db or 66 dB weighted. I very much doubt that. - 72 dB weighted is more like it. I suspect with very little work - 78 dB would be possible. The bearing looks to be about - 80 dB from my experience of making my own.
TD150 has never been my favourite has the same 3 spring layout as the LP12. Ivor said he liked the TD 150 more than 160. The 160 has the front spring moved to the left about 1 inch. Linn argue that this causes the suspension to wobble in the direction of the rotation. Thorens did it to aid quick assembly I was told. In some circles highly criticized as causing dynamic instability ( true ). Some lump effect this with dynamic wow. That is storing energy that is released in reaction to the varying groove friction. Linn are right and the TD 150 layout although frustrating helps arrests the rotation. The Linn springs are very stiff in the rotation direction . It seems to cure the TD145( 160, 125 ). Also the arm cable can be dressed to work as an anchor ( difficult ). I have to thank Jimmy Hugues for teaching me that. A real hands on reviewer as he spent many days a week doing LP12's. If an LP12 is set up correctly it will retain it for 20 years with occasional spring height tweak ( mine and all my friends ). If set up quickly it lasts about 3 months. The trick is to keep rotating the springs over 12 hours. Gradually the right point is found. Longest spring to the motor side helps. The correct set up with belt fitted is to bounce for maybe 30 seconds and not come to an abrupt stop. The last 20 seconds will be almost zero movement. It must not gyrate. Spit is the recommended rubber lubricant as it dries without trace. The spring must be rotated slowly and always clockwise. Hold the spring top and bottom to ensure it doesn't wind. It is obvious if you get it wrong as in the morning the perfect bounce is no longer there.
Sometimes the bounce is right first time. If so leave it alone. 4 hours is what it often took to get an ideal result. Of that time 30 minutes is actual work time. Some springs never work.
LP12 belts last forever and TD 145 not even 1 year. The LP12 / TD145 platter can be reversed to view belt run. There is an adjustment for belt to get speed and position right. Worth about 0.1% adjustment. TD 145 is fixed. If the deck bounces well with the platter inverted you can go down the pub and buy yourself a beer. AR, Thorens, Linn all use the patter mass ratios to cancel bell like resonance. Neat hey.
The thing that has stunned me here is how well the Quad 33 did ( Magneplanar SMGa ). I know the maths says it has a chance. Still a bit tight sounding and that most likely is correct. Somehow that works as the usually bloated LP12/TD145 sound is not there. I should like the Quad as it is 2 transistors and 0.05% distortion. It runs form a very low voltage so hopeless on overload margin. The Hum and hiss very low. I guess the window to work is mightily small and I have found it. It needs 6 on the volume to get going and will just clip the power amp on full. With Maggie's that means the Quad is quite Hot. I avoids with alcohol liking 10% THD and the Quad not.
The Quad was a gift from my old boss. I will be honest I didn't really want it. He said he couldn't bare to sell it as it had been traded in by a very distressed lady who's husband had died. It was in my kitchen where I fell in love with it. The kitchen needed it's tone controls. Gradually I learned it was a bit special. It's owner thought so as I knew him. I then became very poor and sold off my hi fi . The Quad was all I had and some Royd speakers plus LP12. Friends seems very impressed. I built a pre amp as an MC and Quad will not work if low output type.
It took me about 2 years to believe the Quad was any good . That was Dogma ruling my brain. I have an advantage over most in that I see and understand mismatch and always did my most to correct that. That's not people saying something. That is getting the measuring equipment out and pen and paper calculation.
You can guess that I spent much of my life selling stuff. Actually no. I worked with the people who did because no customer would understand a word I said. Some got to trust me and I did work with them . They often met me when I repaired their amp. Unlike other shops we repaired >90% of what we sold . This was highly appreciated and meant I was always taken on technical trips. Often said " wish more dealers were like you ". From repairs I learned the similarities in the good sounding engineering. You will be surprised to know circuitry rarely is of any great importance. Competent is all it needs to be. Make or brake is PSU , layout and high grade connectors. The latter need not be expensive. Amplifiers with circuit similarity can sound chalk and cheese different. I do find somethings said here strange as my experience says very different. It would be like talking about a place never visited by them when I live there. I use the Quad as it keeps me honest. I feel rather ashamed I ever doubted it and gave that as advice. Problem is much of hi fi was and is a fashion parade. I got caught up in that and slightly lived a lie. If asking the SE amp I built recently is better. My friends wouldn't care which I use. When they notice I will build my new hi fi. I have all the bits. A house move comes first.
One thing Linn said years ago was on an LP12 records seem less worn out. As anyone can see the TD145 and Linn LP12 are 90 % the same turntable ( this one 95% ). This sorted TD145 is the same or better. Years ago when I thought my ex wife had cancer for the third time I was in Baltimore. My hi fi guru friend who's alignment gauge I mentioned earlier was rather concern as I had just bough $127 worth of LP's in a Hippy shop . " Are you over compensating Nige ? ". All from the bargain bin except a Mono St Pepper for $29. Was more or less $1 a piece. All of these records were grade D . My friend though them junk. On the TD145 all are acceptable. Somehow the noise and the music are separate. What my friend didn't realize is all were first or early pressings. To my ears nothing is as good and if only 30% were OK that's fine. 90 % were fine to excellent and 10% I will never see again so good to have a copy. The Denon's small diamond probably is finding new groove to play. The Lazar turntable certainly can .
I don't have the unusual M2 hardware for the mounting. I have done what the Garrot Brothers preferred. I have mounted the PU with a small amount of Blu Tak. My ears tell me they were not wrong. So neutral. I had no choice anyway.
Thorens quotes rumble at about 45 db or 66 dB weighted. I very much doubt that. - 72 dB weighted is more like it. I suspect with very little work - 78 dB would be possible. The bearing looks to be about - 80 dB from my experience of making my own.
TD150 has never been my favourite has the same 3 spring layout as the LP12. Ivor said he liked the TD 150 more than 160. The 160 has the front spring moved to the left about 1 inch. Linn argue that this causes the suspension to wobble in the direction of the rotation. Thorens did it to aid quick assembly I was told. In some circles highly criticized as causing dynamic instability ( true ). Some lump effect this with dynamic wow. That is storing energy that is released in reaction to the varying groove friction. Linn are right and the TD 150 layout although frustrating helps arrests the rotation. The Linn springs are very stiff in the rotation direction . It seems to cure the TD145( 160, 125 ). Also the arm cable can be dressed to work as an anchor ( difficult ). I have to thank Jimmy Hugues for teaching me that. A real hands on reviewer as he spent many days a week doing LP12's. If an LP12 is set up correctly it will retain it for 20 years with occasional spring height tweak ( mine and all my friends ). If set up quickly it lasts about 3 months. The trick is to keep rotating the springs over 12 hours. Gradually the right point is found. Longest spring to the motor side helps. The correct set up with belt fitted is to bounce for maybe 30 seconds and not come to an abrupt stop. The last 20 seconds will be almost zero movement. It must not gyrate. Spit is the recommended rubber lubricant as it dries without trace. The spring must be rotated slowly and always clockwise. Hold the spring top and bottom to ensure it doesn't wind. It is obvious if you get it wrong as in the morning the perfect bounce is no longer there.
Sometimes the bounce is right first time. If so leave it alone. 4 hours is what it often took to get an ideal result. Of that time 30 minutes is actual work time. Some springs never work.
LP12 belts last forever and TD 145 not even 1 year. The LP12 / TD145 platter can be reversed to view belt run. There is an adjustment for belt to get speed and position right. Worth about 0.1% adjustment. TD 145 is fixed. If the deck bounces well with the platter inverted you can go down the pub and buy yourself a beer. AR, Thorens, Linn all use the patter mass ratios to cancel bell like resonance. Neat hey.
The thing that has stunned me here is how well the Quad 33 did ( Magneplanar SMGa ). I know the maths says it has a chance. Still a bit tight sounding and that most likely is correct. Somehow that works as the usually bloated LP12/TD145 sound is not there. I should like the Quad as it is 2 transistors and 0.05% distortion. It runs form a very low voltage so hopeless on overload margin. The Hum and hiss very low. I guess the window to work is mightily small and I have found it. It needs 6 on the volume to get going and will just clip the power amp on full. With Maggie's that means the Quad is quite Hot. I avoids with alcohol liking 10% THD and the Quad not.
The Quad was a gift from my old boss. I will be honest I didn't really want it. He said he couldn't bare to sell it as it had been traded in by a very distressed lady who's husband had died. It was in my kitchen where I fell in love with it. The kitchen needed it's tone controls. Gradually I learned it was a bit special. It's owner thought so as I knew him. I then became very poor and sold off my hi fi . The Quad was all I had and some Royd speakers plus LP12. Friends seems very impressed. I built a pre amp as an MC and Quad will not work if low output type.
It took me about 2 years to believe the Quad was any good . That was Dogma ruling my brain. I have an advantage over most in that I see and understand mismatch and always did my most to correct that. That's not people saying something. That is getting the measuring equipment out and pen and paper calculation.
You can guess that I spent much of my life selling stuff. Actually no. I worked with the people who did because no customer would understand a word I said. Some got to trust me and I did work with them . They often met me when I repaired their amp. Unlike other shops we repaired >90% of what we sold . This was highly appreciated and meant I was always taken on technical trips. Often said " wish more dealers were like you ". From repairs I learned the similarities in the good sounding engineering. You will be surprised to know circuitry rarely is of any great importance. Competent is all it needs to be. Make or brake is PSU , layout and high grade connectors. The latter need not be expensive. Amplifiers with circuit similarity can sound chalk and cheese different. I do find somethings said here strange as my experience says very different. It would be like talking about a place never visited by them when I live there. I use the Quad as it keeps me honest. I feel rather ashamed I ever doubted it and gave that as advice. Problem is much of hi fi was and is a fashion parade. I got caught up in that and slightly lived a lie. If asking the SE amp I built recently is better. My friends wouldn't care which I use. When they notice I will build my new hi fi. I have all the bits. A house move comes first.
Hi,
Other factors being what in your opinion?
FWIW, the Nottingham Analogue TTs could run for hours at exact speed with no motor at all.
IMHO people should look at TT design in a more holistic way instead of focusing on single details.
Much in the same way a system should work synergistically as opposed to a collection of thrown in bits and pieces and a pair of crossed fingers....
Cheers,
You're saying spin the platter by hand and it should hold speed for hours?
My 10year old Hyperspace stops between 1-2 minutes.. I guess it needs servicing
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