Reminds me, I've listened to monsters like this on a number of occasions ... and thought, Jeeez!! All that obvious money going into it, and still the sound was pretty throwaway, they were capable of making a major mess of well-known recordings I had ...Centurion chassis ...
Not having even seen them, obviously I am not commenting those specific amps, but like Frank, I too have heard some wildly expensive gear make a mess of things, delivering the kind og performance I would expect from a supermarket Technics, but for a price of two decnt cars down.
Knowing the manufacturer's stellar reputation, I was amazed, to put it mildly. I suppose it took some doing to mess up some good components, because I simply can't believe those manufacturers could ever offer such high priced junk on their own.
So, otherwise very good components may perform badly in an all wrong system, just as cheap components can produce excellent results when put into a well balanced system. Of course, all of you knew this.
It seems unfortunate that owners of such systems appear to be compltelely in the dark on this matter far too many times; then again, while we were putting together well sounding systems, they were busy printing money.
Just because something is big, heavy and expensive really means diddly in terms of the possible range of results.
Knowing the manufacturer's stellar reputation, I was amazed, to put it mildly. I suppose it took some doing to mess up some good components, because I simply can't believe those manufacturers could ever offer such high priced junk on their own.
So, otherwise very good components may perform badly in an all wrong system, just as cheap components can produce excellent results when put into a well balanced system. Of course, all of you knew this.
It seems unfortunate that owners of such systems appear to be compltelely in the dark on this matter far too many times; then again, while we were putting together well sounding systems, they were busy printing money.
Just because something is big, heavy and expensive really means diddly in terms of the possible range of results.
I like ol' reliable a.wayne - I can always trust him to make an intelligent remark ...
Do i sense a bit of irony there Franky and he bowls and its a No ...
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Yes.
Let's face it, the typical Yamaha, Pioneer, Denon, Onkyo etc etc, gear on published specs ought to sound reasonably decent.
And they actually do sound quite reasonably decent when fed power correctly, and connected with decent line and speaker cables.
Most typical users have no idea of how to get that decent sound out of their system, and put up with the standard as supplied sound that they get 'out of the box', thinking that it is good (and normal) sound.
Dan.
These arn't typical users , these are manufacturers with their own products, personally i find it inexcusable if they cant figure how to get decent sound from their own show setup, mostly from a lack of effort and not what PC Frank is purporting, Which is the electronics is no good ...
Until Franky takes one home and plug it into the wall and report beyond his current reference , its YEAH FRANKY ...
Just saying ...
Until Franky takes one home and plug it into the wall and report beyond his current reference , its YEAH FRANKY ...
Just saying ...
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DVV . How are the floods in Serbia ? Are you OK ?
As for driving cars . I likes ones that teach me . I drove my friends Porsche equipped old style Beetle . It cost silly money to build . It used the largest standard VW Beetle engine with blueprinted parts . No attempt at high power . It was a dream to drive and showed no documented VW problems . Comfort was excellent and turned on a sixpence ( like a London Cab ) . Hi fi can and should be like this . I remember saying years ago that some systems only sound good at a very tightly defined volume level . The better ones at at volume level .
I had what should have been a 1960 Triumph Bonneville . Instead it had a 500 CC engine ( 5T as in 1937 ) . It handled like a dream . Got a race tuned Tiger 110 engine for it which exceeded the 120 MPH on the speedo . It then handled like a pig which was the reputation of that bike . Gradually a style of riding called change up early restored the niceness . It took thought and respect to ride it . I don't want a hi fi like that .
As for driving cars . I likes ones that teach me . I drove my friends Porsche equipped old style Beetle . It cost silly money to build . It used the largest standard VW Beetle engine with blueprinted parts . No attempt at high power . It was a dream to drive and showed no documented VW problems . Comfort was excellent and turned on a sixpence ( like a London Cab ) . Hi fi can and should be like this . I remember saying years ago that some systems only sound good at a very tightly defined volume level . The better ones at at volume level .
I had what should have been a 1960 Triumph Bonneville . Instead it had a 500 CC engine ( 5T as in 1937 ) . It handled like a dream . Got a race tuned Tiger 110 engine for it which exceeded the 120 MPH on the speedo . It then handled like a pig which was the reputation of that bike . Gradually a style of riding called change up early restored the niceness . It took thought and respect to ride it . I don't want a hi fi like that .
It would be very rare that the "electronics is no good", rather that the combination of it and the system that it's being operated in has too many weaknesses, that add up to produce poor quality sound. As you say, these are things that should be sorted out ...
My BIL drives a late model Jag XJ, +17ft of all-aluminum luxury.
The front seats move electrically in every direction, including a heat & massage button, but lack 2 inches headroom for me to sit up straight.
(a bit like the average British livingroom, stacked with furniture, with no place to move)
So, If You Were Stuck in The Outback....
Be wary, all those features are devilishly planned obsolescence.
I can proudly say that there are NO electronics involved in the operation of my vehicle.
Yes, last week the alternator regulator died, so for now I have a switch to ground extended into the cabin in order to control the alternator excitation current.
In conjunction with a voltmeter, I can control the battery charge state manually.
Try getting out of an outback situation in like that in your modern fancy pancy mobile marvel.
EDIT: This alternator fault caused an interesting string of eventualities.
First off, my car stereo kept cutting out, (B+ going to 17V ) so I did some major clean up of under bonnet wiring (feeds to after market radiator fan and cruise control and stereo).
A couple of days later the battery shifted such that the positive terminal spot welded to the inner mud guard.
That caused shut down/stop of the car (out on a country road of course), smoke from out of the bonnet and out from under the dash.
I released the bonnet, leapt out and disconnected the battery.....too late !.
There are two connections to the battery neg terminal...a huge cable to the motor, and a 3mm2 to the body.
The lessor wire fused , and that left two current paths...one via
Be wary, all those features are devilishly planned obsolescence
.I can proudly say that there are NO electronics involved in the operation of my vehicle.
Yes, last week the alternator regulator died, so for now I have a switch to ground extended into the cabin in order to control the alternator excitation current.
In conjunction with a voltmeter, I can control the battery charge state manually.
Try getting out of an outback situation in like that in your modern fancy pancy mobile marvel
.EDIT: This alternator fault caused an interesting string of eventualities.
First off, my car stereo kept cutting out, (B+ going to 17V
) so I did some major clean up of under bonnet wiring (feeds to after market radiator fan and cruise control and stereo).A couple of days later the battery shifted such that the positive terminal spot welded to the inner mud guard.
That caused shut down/stop of the car (out on a country road of course), smoke from out of the bonnet and out from under the dash.
I released the bonnet, leapt out and disconnected the battery.....too late !.
There are two connections to the battery neg terminal...a huge cable to the motor, and a 3mm2 to the body.
The lessor wire fused , and that left two current paths...one via
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Do i sense a bit of irony there Franky and he bowls and its a No ...
"The Brothers Four"?
Be wary, all those features are devilishly planned obsolescence .
I can proudly say that there are NO electronics involved in the operation of my vehicle.
Yes, last week the alternator regulator died, so for now I have a switch to ground extended into the cabin in order to control the alternator excitation current.
In conjunction with a voltmeter, I can control the battery charge state manually.
Try getting out of an outback situation in like that in your modern fancy pancy mobile marvel.
EDIT: This alternator fault caused an interesting string of eventualities.
First off, my car stereo kept cutting out, so I did some major clean up of under bonnet wiring (feeds to after market radiator fan and cruise control and stereo).
A couple of days later the battery shifted such that the positive terminal spot welded to the inner mud guard.
That caused immediate shut down/stop of the car, (out on a country road of course), smoke from out of the bonnet and out from under the dash.
So, pull over, handbrake on, release the bonnet, leap out and disconnect the battery..........too late !.
There are two connections to the battery neg terminal...a huge cable to the motor, and a 4mm2 to the body.
The lessor sized neg wire fused , and that left two current paths...one via the handbrake cable inners, and the other via the clutch cable inner, which duly fused and parted.
No clutch cable, no problem, just put it first gear, hit start and drive off........
Naaaaah, the handbrake inners had heated such that their plastic coatings melted causing them to seize within their outers causing the parking brakes to be stuck full on...WTF , WTF, WTF !!!.
By this time it was dark, and with holding a pencil torch between my teeth, it was rear wheels off, dismantle rear brakes and disconnect both side handbrake cables.....quite a mission with the tools I had on board.
So, an interesting lesson there on electrical fault currents, if nothing else.
Dan, the wiser.
.I can proudly say that there are NO electronics involved in the operation of my vehicle.
Yes, last week the alternator regulator died, so for now I have a switch to ground extended into the cabin in order to control the alternator excitation current.
In conjunction with a voltmeter, I can control the battery charge state manually.
Try getting out of an outback situation in like that in your modern fancy pancy mobile marvel
.EDIT: This alternator fault caused an interesting string of eventualities.
First off, my car stereo kept cutting out, so I did some major clean up of under bonnet wiring (feeds to after market radiator fan and cruise control and stereo).
A couple of days later the battery shifted such that the positive terminal spot welded to the inner mud guard.
That caused immediate shut down/stop of the car, (out on a country road of course), smoke from out of the bonnet and out from under the dash.
So, pull over, handbrake on, release the bonnet, leap out and disconnect the battery..........too late !.
There are two connections to the battery neg terminal...a huge cable to the motor, and a 4mm2 to the body.
The lessor sized neg wire fused , and that left two current paths...one via the handbrake cable inners, and the other via the clutch cable inner, which duly fused and parted.
No clutch cable, no problem, just put it first gear, hit start and drive off........
Naaaaah, the handbrake inners had heated such that their plastic coatings melted causing them to seize within their outers causing the parking brakes to be stuck full on...WTF , WTF, WTF !!!.
By this time it was dark, and with holding a pencil torch between my teeth, it was rear wheels off, dismantle rear brakes and disconnect both side handbrake cables.....quite a mission with the tools I had on board.
So, an interesting lesson there on electrical fault currents, if nothing else.
Dan, the wiser.
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"The Brothers Four"?
And Maria Callas no less ....
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Records show that this is the worst flood in the last 139 years, i.e. from the time the records were started. Never before like this, we had 3 months' worth of rain drop down on us in three days.
Entire villages have been wiped off the map. Around 150,000 people have been evacuated. Initial damage reprts talk of over €2 billion in damages, but the real assessment can be made only once the water has withdrawn. Bridges and roads have been swept away. Personal property damage is as yet not assessed, impossible to tell yet.
I always thought Pommie Hi-Fi was exactly like that....Pommie cars also
Dan.
Funnily enough Jaguar placed at the top of JD Powers customer satisfaction rating for luxury cars whilst the previous No1 Lexus drops to 3rd behind Porsche.
Meanwhile in the consumer category the MINI tops it yet again.
(These were US customer surveys)
Sorry for the ot...
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