longtime ago , now im into smooth and easy ....
I haven't , others swear to them being in another world, mostly horny people thou. while i'm impressed with horns dynamically , I cant get over horn honk and their coloration , so they dont work for me, not like large linesource speakers do .
Nige, it strikes me that you are slowly moving towards active speakers, step by step.
And rightly so, I believe.
They rid us of generally nasty passive xo-s, which are intrusive and power robbing. They allow us to use far superior and more precise electronic xo-s. Lastly, they allow us to optimize power amplfication for a specific purpose, say powerfull class AB for bass, higher biased mid power for the midrange driver and pure class A for the treble, as we don't need too much power for it.
The number of possibilities is at worst extremely wide.
And rightly so, I believe.
They rid us of generally nasty passive xo-s, which are intrusive and power robbing. They allow us to use far superior and more precise electronic xo-s. Lastly, they allow us to optimize power amplfication for a specific purpose, say powerfull class AB for bass, higher biased mid power for the midrange driver and pure class A for the treble, as we don't need too much power for it.
The number of possibilities is at worst extremely wide.
Do you think an objective evaluation will come from a public show? Its like getting a real perspective on a Porsche Carrera GT. Very few people can be objective. If its your $500K it must be amazing. If you have no baseline it will be stunning. You would need experience with cars at that level in the circumstances that matter to even judge. It will either be amazing or a nightmare. My brief experience was more of terror than delight. The fact that an experienced driver got into real trouble suggests that terror may be more accurate: Paul Walker crash: Driver's widow sues Porsche, alleges design flaws-Los Angeles Times
High end audio shows are the same superficial experience. If looks are what you crave it may be the way to go.
High end audio shows are the same superficial experience. If looks are what you crave it may be the way to go.
I have done enuff public shows to know there's enuff to extrapolate from , i dont read stuff from the paid pundits, i have others i trust to give me a reasonable synopsis of whats going on. As to the Porsche situation , driver error is what i would go with , GT's like to step out when driven aggressive , my bet is he got sideways corrected late and pendulum into the tree (ala Dale Eranhardt) the tank ruptured on impact causing the fire.
If thats your intent , they do such very well , like everything else in life not everyone fits the cookie cutter profile, there are real players seeking, truth is where they are at and for 600K , BS sensitivity adjustment is very high..
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A good parallel.
Just drooling over a car tells you nothing about how it actually drives, it just suggests how. If it looks good, if it's from a famous manufacturer, and if it costs oodles of money, you ASSUME it will drive well. Probably, but by no means guaranteed. Or, it may drive well, but just not to your taste.
Exactly the same for High End audio. But until you have tested it at home, you really don't know. Only in High End audio, your chances of being eventually disappointed are much greater than with cars.
And by testing, I mean listening to it for at least 14 days, to reduce the current mood factor, music type factor, and worst of all, the forever intermodulating wife factor.
Also getting rid of any crossover . My theory to date is this . 20 Hz to 50 kHz - 3 dB with crossovers at 100 Hz and 7 kHz . As with all ideas reality is often different . For example a first order filter is very different to a fourth order . One can say a first order is almost no crossover . The drive unit itself much like a first order filter if working nicely .
One strange effect of open baffle is dynamic range perception . Sound is very spacious and suggests no box . That is a statement of the obvious . For fun I tried my Cell Phone as a FM radio . I was totally overwhelmed by how good it was . The last time I tried it I could say 6 out of 10 . Now it seems 9 out of 10 . I conclude many things we seek are compensating for how bad box speakers sound . Think about it . Trying to keep the sound inside to box from outside using a speaker cone as a sound proof barrier can't work . We do our best to absorb the energy . When we do well the non linearity of the sound absorber is still audible .
Conversely some 1970's TV sounds like it is boxed in , like the OB became a bad example of a box speaker . I don't have a clue how that can be made to happen . Even the mighty LM 741 can do better than that . Cagney and Lacy has that sound . The music they use doesn't ' it is rather good ( not title track , music to describe mood ) . My guess is mixed in at the end by a music provider .
The film Vertigo sounds less couloured via my open baffle speakers . The V8 engines nothing like modern versions . It is very odd to hear each bass note . Sometime you don't . That is because it is a guitar speaker making one note bass . One thing I am stating to notice . Much music is shape and sweet at the same time . It slightly hurts the ears and yet doesn't fatigue . Real life also . Sources of sound which should not have HF , do . FM is transformed doing this . I would suggest filters at 2 and 20 kHz ruin the sound , the latter a natural one thought of as benign and ideal . I would further suggest no need for the music to have content above 10 kHz to prove this ( or hearing ) . It is the filter corner we hear . I also notice feedback systems do not sound the same as buffered passive filters . Inverting stages sometimes work if there is enough current to drive them . If there is enough current usually a passive would be possible . By a gnats whisker a passive filter is better . I recently built a 12 pole 800 kHz active filter , all inverting . Mostly because I wanted to . It worked OK . If I had used passive I suspect it would have worked better . It was for measuring a Hypex module . I was just about able to verify the Hypex figures with it in place . The problem being the Hypex is only - 20 dB down at 400 kHz it's oscillator centre frequency . This causes the spectrum analyzer to give very odd figures . Looks like the sucker roots of a tree . Now the interesting part . Even with a 12 pole filter I could not get measurements when the Hypex switch-mode PSU was used . The only sound problem with that was a glass like quality which wasn't fatiguing . The conventional PSU I built was very challenge to beat the SMPS .As a bonus it doesn't have the glassy quality ( thus it is not the Hypex sound ) . That glassiness I would describe as being like a weird ribbon microphone , zing rather than sibilance . Like every lady becomes Dusty Springfield .
By maths I have a dip at 160 Hz on the OB speaker which is not too bad . I can just about hear it . Not hearing a box is much more important . I will correct it when I have finished my tests . I am going up the size range of drive units . This means one baffle with increased hole size to save making new baffles . My daughter who is 20 spends quite a lot of time with me listening . She says she likes them . I can see myself in her when she listens , mesmerized .
BTW . With a little thought no extra element is required to go active . The amplifiers can be configured as filters . I had one problem doing this . A capacitor fell off , the output went into oscillation . Double solder and double check .
SCALING UP . The problem becomes one of magnetic materials . Eventually one has to look at these limits . I guess 1.5 Tesla is the maximum .
A year or two ago I had chance to compare the Porsche Cayman (Super Boxster ) and a Mazda MX 5 . I was shown how to drive the MX5 properly . I have to say the bigger smile was the MX5 . When it went wrong it was even more fun . As it's owner said a bit of mild tuning would make it perfect . A Supercharger comes to mind . If I was running for my life I would prefer the Porsche . I understand Bugatti make the Varyron as easy to drive as possible . Their customers have money rather than ability to drive . 10 seconds having never driven one is what it should require . The old Honda NSX also .
I do find hi fi shows useful . It is not the overall sound . It is the nice quirks that say despite being in a hotel room I can hear the elusive quality . Linn call it timing . If you like it is the MX 5 qualities . The only time I ever heard a sound I wanted to take home it was FAL of Japan . What I am making now is the nearest I can get . The other time I remember was a Croft Audio OTL amplifier . I suspect it's breath taking speed was odd order distortion . Most hi fi shows are meet the maker . Mostly the worst sound I hear is full range line arrays . So close to my theories I doubly dislike them . It isn't the theory that is wrong . It is domesticating it that kills it . Box speakers exist for a reason . Much like cars are better than motorcycles in real life . At least OB speakers don't kill .
Excellent comment. What a lot of audio fails to get right is that combination of qualities, and thereby it never sounds convincing - you must have the intensity fully expressed, and it must not sound 'wrong'.
Just a short comment, so as not to pollute the thread.
Nigel, driving a high power to weight vehicle, lots of power with low weight, should be sold only on the condition that the buyer/driver takes a short driving course. After I put my Yugo together, I was amazed at what it could do, but it took me around 3 months of practice at night and in confined spaces to learn how to do it in a controlled and predictable way. YouTube is full of clips in which you see drivers ruin otherwise excellent cars simply because they had never before driven anything that powerful.
Power without control, which comes through learning, is deadly.
Nigel, driving a high power to weight vehicle, lots of power with low weight, should be sold only on the condition that the buyer/driver takes a short driving course. After I put my Yugo together, I was amazed at what it could do, but it took me around 3 months of practice at night and in confined spaces to learn how to do it in a controlled and predictable way. YouTube is full of clips in which you see drivers ruin otherwise excellent cars simply because they had never before driven anything that powerful.
Power without control, which comes through learning, is deadly.
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