• WARNING: Tube/Valve amplifiers use potentially LETHAL HIGH VOLTAGES.
    Building, troubleshooting and testing of these amplifiers should only be
    performed by someone who is thoroughly familiar with
    the safety precautions around high voltages.

Sonic effects of tubes

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but it is NOT because of the kind of material the electrons travel through. From an electron's point of view solid copper is made out of empty space.

That's not true. Copper at room temperature isn't a superconductor for one thing. Impurities in copper also adversely affect its electrical properties for both power transmission and use in audio electronics.
 
Last edited:
diyAudio Senior Member
Joined 2002
Hi,

Going way, way back to the OP's question about why tube sound different. the answer is easy: All amplifiers distort the signal. None are perfect. By a fluke of luck it just works out the the kind of distortion made by tubes is "musical" and we humans like it. But the kind of distortion make by SS is of a type we don't like. (Yes there are counter examples.)

Agreed.

Yet there are other qualities to tubes I rarely hear from SS amps. Dynamic range comes to mind, overload behaviour and so on.

Sure tubes aren't perfect but to my mind it's a lot easier to make a good sounding tube amp than it is to make a good SS amp.
Parodoxically one could say it's quite possible to make a very well measuring SS amp with no assurance whatsoever that it will actually sound good....
Conversely...O.K. I'll shut up.:shutup:

You can't add air to a recording that doesn't have it, but you can easily displace it with noise and distortion. Odd harmonic distortion makes things denser, but even harmonic not so much. Intermodulation distortion, even TIM, displaces air.

Yes. Pop recordings (Steely Dan is pretty much straight forwarded) are notorious for being overproduced so I wouldn't expect to hear "air" on most of those.
Small jazz ensembles or chamber music, when minimally miked and carefully transferred are far easier.

Cheers, ;)
 
I found something interesting here:

J7 FUZZY DISTORTION IN ANALOG AMPLIFIERS: A LIMIT TO INFORMATION TRANSMISSION?, M.O.J. Hawksford, JAES, vol.31, no.10, pp.745-754, October 1983

We therefore propose a theory that partial signal quantization is the fundamental process that sets an inherent bound to signal transparency through a transistor stage. Both Eqs. (11) and (15) support the probable existence of significant granularity where Eq. (11) suggests a form of amplitude quantization and Eq. (15) an association with 1/f noise.

http://www.essex.ac.uk/csee/research/audio_lab/malcolmspubdocs/J7 Fuzzy distortion.pdf

Malcolm Hawksford - Publications



Also, note that when electrons travel through materials, they travel through the conduction bands in the materials. In metals, the gap between the conduction bands and valence bands is relatively small which makes them good conductors. In most non-metals, the gap between the conduction bands and valence bands is large making them bad conductors, ie. good insulators. The conduction bands are shared between the atoms in a solid and the valence bands are at lower energy levels and are associated with individual atoms.
 
Also, note that when electrons travel through materials, they travel through the conduction bands in the materials.

No.

In metals, the gap between the conduction bands and valence bands is relatively small which makes them good conductors.

No.

In most non-metals, the gap between the conduction bands and valence bands is large making them bad conductors, ie. good insulators.

Sort of. Sometimes.

The conduction bands are shared between the atoms in a solid and the valence bands are at lower energy levels and are associated with individual atoms.

No and no.
 
It is a long time since I studied any solid-state physics, and my memory is not what it was, but I seem to remember:
Bands are about permissible energy states, not corridors for electrons to move along.
In metals, the top valence band overlaps the conduction band so electrons are free to move.
In semiconductors, there is a small gap so thermal energy can promote a few electrons.
In insulators there is a large gap.
All bands are the result of the periodic crystal lattice; individual atoms have discrete electron shells. However, it may be true that the lower bands are not as broad as the upper bands.
As soon as an electron starts moving it gets scattered by a dislocation or other lattice defect, or a phonon or impurities - hence resistance and Ohm's Law. Note that impurities contribute to Ohm's Law e.g. linearity, not distortion.
How am I doing?

PS I suspect that Hawksford's stuff on fuzzy things is wrong. It ought to be possible to scientifically confirm or deny it, and it probably would have been seen in areas such as charge sensitive amplifiers in nuclear instrumentation if it existed. It may simply be an example of shot noise.
 
The Quantum Purifier ???... Just when you think you have seen your fill of bovine excrement, another one comes along!
So does this one have a 'saturation' level? Or do I have to clean the "filter" of dirty Quarks, Muons or some such undesirable particles?


______________________________________________________Rick.....
 
Sy wrote:

Originally Posted by 7n7is View Post
The conduction bands are shared between the atoms in a solid and the valence bands are at lower energy levels and are associated with individual atoms.

No and no.


They disagree with you here:

In the solid state physics field of semiconductors and insulators, the conduction band is the range of electron energies, higher than that of the valence band, sufficient to free an electron from binding with its individual atom and allow it to move freely within the atomic lattice of the material. Electrons within the conduction band are mobile charge carriers in solids, responsible for conduction of electric currents in metals and other good electrical conductors.

Conduction band - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Band Theory of Solids

A useful way to visualize the difference between conductors, insulators and semiconductors is to plot the available energies for electrons in the materials. Instead of having discrete energies as in the case of free atoms, the available energy states form bands. Crucial to the conduction process is whether or not there are electrons in the conduction band. In insulators the electrons in the valence band are separated by a large gap from the conduction band, in conductors like metals the valence band overlaps the conduction band, and in semiconductors there is a small enough gap between the valence and conduction bands that thermal or other excitations can bridge the gap. With such a small gap, the presence of a small percentage of a doping material can increase conductivity dramatically.

An important parameter in the band theory is the Fermi level, the top of the available electron energy levels at low temperatures. The position of the Fermi level with the relation to the conduction band is a crucial factor in determining electrical properties.

band.gif


http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/solids/band.html
 
. . . throws toys out of pram!

That is twice today on this forum I have seen someone throw a wobbly (as we say in the UK) when someone else had the temerity to disagree with an allegedly 'scientific' statement which was actually false. Some things are true, some things are matters of opinion, but some other things are just untrue.

I know this is supposed to be a hobby, but if we choose a scientific hobby we should not object to the constraints of science. If I talk nonsense (it does happen!) I am grateful for someone putting me straight - even though it hurts my pride a little.
 
Actually, I think nobody knows the exact details for sure because no one really understands quantum mechanics. I'm quoting Feynman here.


I think that most physicists would agree with you there. However you have posted incorrect information. Metals are good conductors of heat and electricity due to a partially filled energy band. To take 2 adjacent elements, sodium and magnesium; in the case of the former it is because of a single 3s valence electron but in the latter there is a large band overlap.
 
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