Thanks. I thought it was something like that but wasn't 100% sure.
I wouldn't trust ebay for semis. Farnell have them at £21 or £17 for ten+
Is R=L, S=M, T=N?
I think I can still differentiate RST tho in ABX thru headphone might not be better than 7/7. But the problem is, no file is good enough. I can't enjoy any of them thru my speakers! They have no soulso I'm thinking downloading LMN in case the song or music is "better".
Just download one and see if you like it.
Yes I have downloaded them. My "preference" is still the same order. Yes, I think RST=LMN. The song in LMN produce too much noise!
I don't like any of them. I don't know, in the fruit test I put this opamp at the bottom of my preference list tho I'm not surprised it came out the most favored.
I guess my preference here is direct, 100% feedback, then the resistor trick.
OK
I'll wait until tomorrow before revealing which they are.
Mooly think we sit in nearly same timezone, can we get untill 00:01PM UK tomorrow. I lack time, and my two speakers setups have dificult to reveal files, so need to try headphones but both pair headphones i have are taken apart for some impedance linearsation tests. Therefor need to rush them together again and see if this helps. By speakers i have one of the RST files as favorite, but hard to say why
.
Mooly think we sit in nearly same timezone, can we get untill 00:01PM UK tomorrow. I lack time, and my two speakers setups have dificult to reveal files, so need to try headphones but both pair headphones i have are taken apart for some impedance linearsation tests. Therefor need to rush them together again and see if this helps. By speakers i have one of the RST files as favorite, but hard to say why
That's no problem
After noon tomorrow then.By speakers i have one of the RST files as favorite, but hard to say why
Why? I'll describe the sound for you:
LM4562 was the most favored in the first opamp shootout, but I put it on the bottom of my preference. The reason it was favored is I believe because it has strong sonic.
When other opamp was used in Mooly's circuit, the effect of the extra opamps in the signal path on sonic reduction is so big. So, any benefit of the extra opamps (smooth sound, "fat" sound, sweeter vocal) cannot be justified by ears because of much poorer sonic that makes them lifeless, boring.
But LM4562 here, even with the extra opamps in the signal path, the sonic reduction is so small that listeners may pick up some preferences from the "fat" sound (remember, many prefer that fat sound of oil caps) where the perception of room ambient can be heard even tho it is not real.
For me, I don't like all files. When I was going to sleep last night, I turned down the volume a lot, but then completely turned it off before going to sleep. But to choose which one I prefer is not difficult, because I prefer accurate sound.
Even between two files that are close (I believe it is direct vs 100% feedback), yesterday in severely sick condition I could do 6/6 only from listening to the singer inhale (one is more accurate)! And from the other song, the brush on the drum is more accurate from this one file.
Basically, I just listened to the accuracy of the voice in all of these files. The most accurate (not difficult to pick) I believe is DIRECT.
Differentiating between the most accurate (DIRECT) and the most artificial (I believe it is MOOLY'S CIRCUIT) is very easy. I have 100% certainty in the ABX but I just stopped at 10/10 because I have many deadlines at work.
ADD:
BTW, Direct and 100% feedback is different but I think I'm "okay" with any of them (not a lot different in preferences).
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T of course. T and S is between the most accurate and the most artificial.
At home with speakers (no Foobar) I'm not quite sure with my memory (I was sick
) but as I remember it, at the beginning I prefer R over T (S is out for sure). I don't remember if I changed my mind or not. I made my mind after I downloaded LMN and found out only one file I could accept. Either L or N I cant be sure, but most probably L.I need to listen again with my speakers at home to be sure (I cant make my preference based on headphone).
This is getting spooky, T was my preferred too - albeit I wasn't really in the groove when I compared - sure we weren't twins in another life, Jay? ...
Hehehe
For my skills and two speaker setup neither AAA,BBB RST or LMN was easy, so little difference. No of the files sound natural on my setups, but of course voted for best of them.
I voted R and M, Mooly answered R was the inverting buffers only and M was the full chain with the noise gain compensated opamps. Now there is something to think about/analyze and later i will try headphones.
I voted R and M, Mooly answered R was the inverting buffers only and M was the full chain with the noise gain compensated opamps. Now there is something to think about/analyze and later i will try headphones.
OK, here is the breakdown of the files,
L, Inverting buffers only.
M, Inverting buffers PLUS two non inverting buffers with noise gain compensation.
N, Inverting buffers PLUS two non inverting buffers with 100% feedback.
R, Inverting buffers only.
S, Inverting buffers PLUS two non inverting buffers with noise gain compensation.
T, Inverting buffers PLUS two non inverting buffers with 100% feedback.
An interesting result and thanks to all that took part. I feel that using opamps, and perhaps mixing opamps (where there are several in a circuit) so that no one trait predominates could be worth looking into. I also feel the inverting configuration has the ability to perform better in listening trials compared to the non-inverting. That has been suggested for a long time... I feel there could be some truth in it.
I also want to do more with the FET devices. Although we always think of them as being immune to impedance imbalance on the inputs (at DC that is true), for AC it does affect the distortion profile and equalising impedances can be used to minimise the distortion.
L, Inverting buffers only.
M, Inverting buffers PLUS two non inverting buffers with noise gain compensation.
N, Inverting buffers PLUS two non inverting buffers with 100% feedback.
R, Inverting buffers only.
S, Inverting buffers PLUS two non inverting buffers with noise gain compensation.
T, Inverting buffers PLUS two non inverting buffers with 100% feedback.
An interesting result and thanks to all that took part. I feel that using opamps, and perhaps mixing opamps (where there are several in a circuit) so that no one trait predominates could be worth looking into. I also feel the inverting configuration has the ability to perform better in listening trials compared to the non-inverting. That has been suggested for a long time... I feel there could be some truth in it.
I also want to do more with the FET devices. Although we always think of them as being immune to impedance imbalance on the inputs (at DC that is true), for AC it does affect the distortion profile and equalising impedances can be used to minimise the distortion.
In power opamp level, there is that "compromise". Non-inverting has stronger "drive". So with inverting, special preamp is required. Without preamp, and especially with the standard simple circuit, for me non-inverting is preferable.
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The big problem of inverting circuit is that:
1) it has low input impedance defined by the resistor from input to inverting input of the opamp
2) this resistor connected to -IN introduces additional noise, acceptable value is 1kohm or less but then we have low input impedance. And in case of higher gain this noise is amplified by the gain used. So, inverting without buffer before it is difficult to make well.
1) it has low input impedance defined by the resistor from input to inverting input of the opamp
2) this resistor connected to -IN introduces additional noise, acceptable value is 1kohm or less but then we have low input impedance. And in case of higher gain this noise is amplified by the gain used. So, inverting without buffer before it is difficult to make well.
Yes, that's why system should be designed integral from source to speaker.
In this case, we have the possibility to remove the so called "preamp". Focus more on the output stage of a DAC chip and find a best way to insert a volume control.
The blind test shows that opamp insertion is detrimental to sound quality. So opamp should be used wisely. The effect to enjoyment is long term actually, cannot be perceived on the spot like in a blind test (you have to live with both options then you will know).
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