Reviews weren't so great on the other ones, so I'm looking at these now.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=275-078
I'm also looking at two crossovers but can't decide on which one to use:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=260-174
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=266-452
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=275-078
I'm also looking at two crossovers but can't decide on which one to use:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=260-174
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=266-452
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Xtreme - You're giving yourself a headache for no reason. I can tell by you're questions you're a Noob.
You want some decent speakers for your Dad. ANY established design on any of the Forums you go to will beat the junk you buy in big box stores hands down and please your Dad.
It will take you years unless you have a background in such to understand speaker design. The Science is Applied Physics to get what these guys get out of a driver and even XOless FR drivers need this knowledge to simply build a box that will work with the Thiele/Small parameters to make it sound right.
You've got enough to build a box and finish it let alone attempting design at this point.
It will take you months just to find all the websites the hundreds of designers have established just to share their own efforts with other DIYer's.
There are virtually at least 100 designs using the HiVi 3 or 4 " drivers. Zaph is just 1 and He hasn't designed much on his own that He isn't critical of. The Man is Genious and never satisfied. Most Guys on all forums just the same. Paul Carmody (Undefinition) over at Parts Express also has a few designs using the HiVi as does Lou C. Pauls' 'Overnight Sensations ' MTM strikes me as right up your alley.
P.E. will have your dust cover as well.
For what you're after I think you'd be surprised at the volume created by a small quality driver.
You can always build him a better pair later. Stick with basics. Dream afterwards.
You want some decent speakers for your Dad. ANY established design on any of the Forums you go to will beat the junk you buy in big box stores hands down and please your Dad.
It will take you years unless you have a background in such to understand speaker design. The Science is Applied Physics to get what these guys get out of a driver and even XOless FR drivers need this knowledge to simply build a box that will work with the Thiele/Small parameters to make it sound right.
You've got enough to build a box and finish it let alone attempting design at this point.
It will take you months just to find all the websites the hundreds of designers have established just to share their own efforts with other DIYer's.
There are virtually at least 100 designs using the HiVi 3 or 4 " drivers. Zaph is just 1 and He hasn't designed much on his own that He isn't critical of. The Man is Genious and never satisfied. Most Guys on all forums just the same. Paul Carmody (Undefinition) over at Parts Express also has a few designs using the HiVi as does Lou C. Pauls' 'Overnight Sensations ' MTM strikes me as right up your alley.
P.E. will have your dust cover as well.
For what you're after I think you'd be surprised at the volume created by a small quality driver.
You can always build him a better pair later. Stick with basics. Dream afterwards.
6 litre, 1" x 113mm long, Much smaller it will want to be sealed.
Be nice to see a FR so one could guess whether it really needs a tweeter.
Bluto's advice is good... start with something that has been done. I'd go with a FR and forget the cheap 2-way
dave
lol, I am indeed a noob and I made that clear in my first post, haha. I'm new to all this but I find myself taking on projects all the time, and they are always 10x more difficult than they should be, but hey, that's what makes it fun. Let me give you an example.
2 years ago I got my tax return and I wanted a project car. I'm a mechanic of sorts, not by profession but by hobby. My 95 Regal runs a skidpad faster than a C5 Corvette which is an amazing feat for a grocery getter. So when I wanted a project car, I didn't do what every guy does and buy an old Camaro or Mustang. No, I went out and found a 1987 Jaguar XJS V12 with an overheated engine. I swapped engines and transmissions for the first time, rebuilt the top end of that Jaguar V12 minus head gaskets, and fired it up. Everyone on my automotive forums said I was crazy when I started but nobody else there had the guts to actually attempt it.
Well, this is sort of the same. I want a challenge, and if I have to spend gobs of time learning, well, so be it. I'm sure I may never reach the levels some have here, but I'll get as far as I can.
So, that being said, what are you suggesting that I do? I've gone as far as to install WinISD and I'm about to try to determine by some means how big of a box to build, the port dimensions, and etc. I'm not looking for an easy way out, lol. If this really is too much, then I understand, but I only know so much about these drivers.
Where are these pre-made designs you speak of by the way? I've been trying to find some for a while and haven't had much luck. Are you suggesting I just find a pre-made design and use the drivers those people used and replicate exactly what they did specification wise?
Don't know if this helps any
http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/290-212s.pdf
Apparently its effective from 60hz to 10,000hz, which I guess merits a tweeter.
What's an FR? I'm a little tired, sorry about that.
another one of PE's flaky pdfs... come up blank.
In this context FR = Full Range (it can mean frequency response as well)
That would qualify as a Full-tange in many cases... i've found that a helper tweeter is useful in situations like these. A decent tweeter and a 2 uF cap (_ a lot of padding). Horns are typically a good match dispersion-wize, but typically need a lot of padding (or a really high XO). If a dome, as small as you can find. The ApexJr is good for this amp, but a separate shipping cost makes picking on from PE sensible.
Just looking at them, this is likely the one i'd pick. Needs at least 6dB padding you could then just XO with a 1uF or so cap.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Dayton Audio ND20FA-6 3/4" Neodymium Dome Tweeter
If you use 2 of the 4" the XO typically gets much more complex and the tweeter needs to be XOed much lower.
dave
Xtreme - Duhhhh, just lost my whole thread but Dave answered much any how.
He's also picked the tweet I'd use if you choose multi driver.
Keep in mind that after age 40 most of us don't hear much above 14k hz any how. XO's are a pain in the tail when you don't understand them and much to know.
The Dayton you keep going to is fairly new and untested by the Diy Community. You want a design that many members from many forums have testified as worth building.
In the beginning I was going through quad paper like it was Charmin drawing tons of really cool looking speakers and then buying drivers that fit my designs and pre-built XO's to find they sounded much like Charmins use. Want to buy some drivers?
Follow all people have listed for you.
He's also picked the tweet I'd use if you choose multi driver.
Keep in mind that after age 40 most of us don't hear much above 14k hz any how. XO's are a pain in the tail when you don't understand them and much to know.
The Dayton you keep going to is fairly new and untested by the Diy Community. You want a design that many members from many forums have testified as worth building.
In the beginning I was going through quad paper like it was Charmin drawing tons of really cool looking speakers and then buying drivers that fit my designs and pre-built XO's to find they sounded much like Charmins use. Want to buy some drivers?
Follow all people have listed for you.
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Excellent. I'll pick that one up then. I need to order these drivers soon since apparently the sale is only till Monday.
Tell me more about the padding and the crossover. What crossover point would you recommend for this application, or is this something I can figure out by listening and fine tuning? Are any of these crossovers adjustable? Would the smaller crossover I listed work for this?
Thanks for the help!
Thanks for taking the time to explain this all to me. I appreciate it.
What do you mean by "follow all people have listed for you?" Are you referring to the advice people have given me in this thread, or are you suggesting that I scrap the plan for the two 4" drivers and follow the designs others have tested and proven?
The XOs you linked are a joke.
I prefer to use no padding. With an XO like i've suggested, adjustment is simple, and you dial it in by ear.
Buy 2 of these
Dayton Audio DMPC-0.68 0.68uF 250V Polypropylene Capacitor
and 10 of these
Dayton Audio DMPC-0.10 0.10uF 250V Polypropylene Capacitor
Install the big one in series with the cap. Then listen.
Add one of the little ones in parallel. Listen.
Keep doing that until you find the tweeter is too hot, than back off one small cap.
The caps are doing both XO & padding function.
dave
Thank you!!!
So here's what I'll be buying.
2x
Dayton Audio ND20FA-6 3/4" Neodymium Dome Tweeter
2x
Dayton Audio ND105-4 4" Aluminum Cone Midbass Driver 4 Ohm
2x
Dayton Audio DMPC-0.68 0.68uF 250V Polypropylene Capacitor
10x
Dayton Audio DMPC-0.10 0.10uF 250V Polypropylene Capacitor
Anything else? Any foam type material I need to line the walls with?
Any suggestions on ports? The only one on PartsExpress is 103mm, which is 10mm short of what you recommended. How does that change the port tuning?
Port Tube 1" ID x 4" L Flared
Wouldn't I be able to use a larger diameter port if it was longer to get the same tuning frequency as the 1" diameter?
Port Tube 1-1/8" ID x 6-1/2" L Flared
Foam damping, IMO, is not very useful. You will need to damp the walls. ~1/2" natural cotton or wool felt -- our favorite UltraTouch (linked is as close to what we use as i could find -- 1/2" cloth backed, comes in 4x200 ft rolls). Bob @ CSS sells it in small quanties. Be nice to get a chunk of the linked product to compare.
I never bother with store-bought ports. A chunk of PVC pipe is cheaper, stronger and can be had at any Home Depot, Rona, Canadian Tire or any of a zillion other stores that sell plumbing supplies. Comes in convient sizes 1" 1.5" 2" 2.5", 3", 4", larger may require a visit to a specialist.
dave
well ,everything has already been established ...Hmmm ,haven't considered the binding posts : very important !! Also ,the flared port has little sense if it is not flared at both ends of the duct.
I saw a project on PE project gallery designed by Wolfteeth ( I don't remember his 'civic' name ) that used a 3" TB that exhibited 3 reflex chambers
I would say...to give it a try , even if I find double chamber quite satisfying
(triple is a pure exercise ).
I saw a project on PE project gallery designed by Wolfteeth ( I don't remember his 'civic' name ) that used a 3" TB that exhibited 3 reflex chambers
I would say...to give it a try , even if I find double chamber quite satisfying
(triple is a pure exercise ).
Ah, so I guess I'll just have to see how I like it. Sounds good, lol. I guess I can play with the port length if I need to.
Regarding the damping in the inside of the box, does it matter how thick the actual material is? I have a friend who has some left over open cell egg carton looking paddingand its 1-1/2 inches.
Edit: looks like with those numbers, we're at around 41hz. Sweet!
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