I did them purely for aesthetics so if there's a sonic benefit as well then its a bonus I didn't count on
Dave will know for certain though.Scott
Scott,
It is also good to listen the single full range driver without bracing and try to add bracing (holy bracing Scott designed) and compare the difference on sound.
Thanks,
Tony.
It is also good to listen the single full range driver without bracing and try to add bracing (holy bracing Scott designed) and compare the difference on sound.
Thanks,
Tony.
Thanks Tony!
I have not yet done the bracing but plan on it once I get an initial listen. I have never heard a single driver setup and have been building these on faith and hope so I want to make sure I like them before I go through all the work of building the bracing. We'll see tomorrow what my initial impression is
Scott
Dave,
For the ignorant like me that means for a baffle the width of Super Pensil 12, a small round over will not yield any benefits in LF at all.
HF maybe a little benefit, nothing much.
Am I right in decoding?
-Zia
Well, they are all put together now, sans bracing. There seems to be a decent amount of panel resonance so I'm definitely going to build the bracing for them. The big side panels I'm guessing are the main culprits. I put 1.5lbs of stuffing in and the bass seems about right; not muddy at all. Initial impressions by both my wife and myself are that they sound very good, much better than we had thought they were going to. They are imaging incredibly well. Highs are definitely there and are crisp, clear and articulate without being harsh. Bass is surprising and what I was really worried about: its there! Haha! I'm coming from mains with built in 8" subs with a 350w amp so I'm used to a lot of low end reinforcement. While these aren't outputting the quantity of bass, they are definitely putting out quality bass and I don't feel that its lacking at all. I'm extremely surprised and impressed!!
All that said, I made a mistake on the 2nd cabinet and ended up putting the driver 1-1/4" too high. I don't know how I did it but I obviously measured wrong so I'm going to have to build another cabinet. Not a huge deal but a pain none-the-less.
Anyway, I have to say I'm VERY impressed and really liking what I hear. I've only been listening for about 1/2 hour so these are all initial impressions. I'm going to give it a while and work at redoing the other cabinet and build all the bracing.
Good work Mark, Dave and Scott! These are fantastic!!
Scott
All that said, I made a mistake on the 2nd cabinet and ended up putting the driver 1-1/4" too high. I don't know how I did it but I obviously measured wrong so I'm going to have to build another cabinet. Not a huge deal but a pain none-the-less.
Anyway, I have to say I'm VERY impressed and really liking what I hear. I've only been listening for about 1/2 hour so these are all initial impressions. I'm going to give it a while and work at redoing the other cabinet and build all the bracing.
Good work Mark, Dave and Scott! These are fantastic!!
Scott
Attachments
Listening to Owl City: Meteor Shower as its a great mixed song with lots of low bass and crisp highs. The bass is astonishingly clear with this track and the highs (which can get VERY harsh with Owl City very easily) are not harsh at all but rather very even. At the beginning of the track there is a woman very faintly singing and I've never heard her on that track before on ANY system! My 2k Strata Mini's don't resolve it and these $300/pr drivers in my humble home built cabinets do. WOW!
So last night my wife and I were watching Top Gear on Netflix. I have for the last few years really liked the presentation that my center channel gives. It is a partially open baffle configuration where the outside drivers are in sealed cabinets and the inside are open. It creates a very open and natural sounding soundstage and I've always been very impressed with its clarity. Well last night, for grins, I turned off the center channel and just put the system in 2-CH stereo to get an idea of what having an ALP12 center would be like. Holy Cow! The clarity was SO MUCH better than the X-Voce that I have! Dialog was so much clearer and more precise. Looks like I'm going to be building that center channel after all
Dave had given me the idea of using the Classic Golden Ratio Mar-Ken12 and turning it on its side. That's definitely an option but I was kinda hoping for something bigger. I'd really like to have an f3 in the 50's or 60's so I can be totally flat to 80hz where I cross over to my subs. Any suggestions or will the GRMK12 get there?
Scott
Dave had given me the idea of using the Classic Golden Ratio Mar-Ken12 and turning it on its side. That's definitely an option but I was kinda hoping for something bigger. I'd really like to have an f3 in the 50's or 60's so I can be totally flat to 80hz where I cross over to my subs. Any suggestions or will the GRMK12 get there?
Scott
So last night my wife and I were watching Top Gear on Netflix. I have for the last few years really liked the presentation that my center channel gives. It is a partially open baffle configuration where the outside drivers are in sealed cabinets and the inside are open. It creates a very open and natural sounding soundstage and I've always been very impressed with its clarity. Well last night, for grins, I turned off the center channel and just put the system in 2-CH stereo to get an idea of what having an ALP12 center would be like. Holy Cow! The clarity was SO MUCH better than the X-Voce that I have! Dialog was so much clearer and more precise. Looks like I'm going to be building that center channel after all
Dave had given me the idea of using the Classic Golden Ratio Mar-Ken12 and turning it on its side. That's definitely an option but I was kinda hoping for something bigger. I'd really like to have an f3 in the 50's or 60's so I can be totally flat to 80hz where I cross over to my subs. Any suggestions or will the GRMK12 get there?
Scott
Scott: I've not been particularly interested enough to research the subject, but are there clear specs (that are followed) for the frequency bandwidth of center channel mixing? - in other worlds if THX is not a dirty word here, what is required to meet "home cinema specifications??
I'd imagine that even if the GRMK12's in room f3 isn't neatly inside your desired range (which I frankly doubt it couldn't reach), if you're crossing the full front row over at 80Hz, the combination of Pensils and center should have no trouble getting you flat to that point.
In approx 2500ft^3 room, with main listening position approx 10f from front row, the much smaller Alp 7 crossed over at 110(?) are quite capable for my needs, but then I don't listen at 100+ dB "reference levels"
I don't think THX is a dirty word at all. The THX standard is for 80hz crossovers from all speakers to the subs. That's what I use and my subs do VERY well with the low stuff! My goal is to get flat to 80hz and let my duals take it from there. As long as I can get the front three there, then I'm good. Obviously the SuperPensils get there no problem so I just need to make sure the center I build get there too.
I do listen loud from time to time but not that often anymore with an 11 month old just up the stairs and I don't have my dedicated theater anymore. I was listening to some techno last night crossed to the subs and I couldn't detect any breakup or distortion and the drivers were barely moving.
CGR Mar-Ken12 has simmed anechoic F3 on the order of 50 Hz or slightly higher (F10 about 45 Hz), the alternate tuning i'd use for a centre (assumes more boundry reinforcement) would be F3 about 4 Hz lower and an F10 almost to 40 Hz). A dedicated design for centre use will follow in the path of the A7 centre Chris has. I have a single lonely silver A12eN that will go into a box matching our CGR MK12.
dave
dave
doing some quickie googlizing this morning , I ran into some interesting chatter on the subject
gist of which is that the Tomlinson Holman part of THX is not the issue, but the continual lining of mr Lucas' pockets for licensing fees is.
of course, that's the internet for you - if there isn't a nasty rumor extant to buttress your agenda, start one!
If you're not in a hurry, I'd wait for the dedicated A12 center design - maybe let Dave know if you have some particular aesthetic factors to consider.
THX has some benefits, which is a uniform audio mastering environment, including mixing levels. Reference volume is actually 85db +20db headroom for peaks.
In a small room I can get the whole place rocking with tiny 3" wideband drivers and a modest sub. I am quite willing to bet that pretty much any of the Pensil series would do quite well with in a modest sized HT environment with an adequate subwoofer.
From what I understand about a center channel, they should typically have response below 120hz as lower range information is now passed to both the center and surround speakers with digital multichannel formats. I don't think that there is a real recommendation for how low to go though.
If I recall correctly, 80hz was chosen partly because crossing over at 80hz or lower means that the subwoofer isn't easily located. If your speakers can run lower that is great, its just that 80hz is considered the upper limit if you are crossing them over to a sub, especially if it isn't between the front speakers. The higher you cross over all the channels, the harder the sub has to work, especially if it has LFE and all of the other channels dumping low frequencies on to it.
So it isn't that you have to cross over at 80hz, its that you shouldn't cross over above 80hz. That and I think having everything crossed over at that is more for theatre use since its easier to hide a bunch of high output subwoofers than it is to get dozens of speakers on the wall that can hit below 80hz with 105db peaks.
In a small room I can get the whole place rocking with tiny 3" wideband drivers and a modest sub. I am quite willing to bet that pretty much any of the Pensil series would do quite well with in a modest sized HT environment with an adequate subwoofer.
From what I understand about a center channel, they should typically have response below 120hz as lower range information is now passed to both the center and surround speakers with digital multichannel formats. I don't think that there is a real recommendation for how low to go though.
If I recall correctly, 80hz was chosen partly because crossing over at 80hz or lower means that the subwoofer isn't easily located. If your speakers can run lower that is great, its just that 80hz is considered the upper limit if you are crossing them over to a sub, especially if it isn't between the front speakers. The higher you cross over all the channels, the harder the sub has to work, especially if it has LFE and all of the other channels dumping low frequencies on to it.
So it isn't that you have to cross over at 80hz, its that you shouldn't cross over above 80hz. That and I think having everything crossed over at that is more for theatre use since its easier to hide a bunch of high output subwoofers than it is to get dozens of speakers on the wall that can hit below 80hz with 105db peaks.
LOL! Anything regarding Lucas will undoubtedly stir up MUCH drama!
I think I will wait for the dedicated. I can just hold on to the center I have for now and sell it when it comes to that point.
Aesthetics-wise, I prefer a wide center channel with either rear ports or dual front firing ports. I am VERY into things looking "even" and a port on one side or the other would drive me bonkers. I like to run my speakers without grills so prefer not to "cover" unevenness with grills
I also like deep centers and have zero issues with a 40"W x 10"T x 16" deep cabinet! LOL! Seriously, I don't. I like big centers as my 3' wide center shows now.Thanks Chris!
Scott
Zia,
I have been extremely encouraged by this purchase. I took a big leap having never heard ANY single driver setups but I think so far I'm really going to like this adventure. You DEFINITELY need to get yours done, they are fantastic. I am now thinking of doing a FH3 with the new Alpair7 v.3's given how much I like these 12's ...
As far as hours on the drivers, I've lost count. I have to be getting close to 4-500. They get 3-4 hours of use every day and some days more. Weekends get MUCH more use.
Oh, and YES I'm a Top Gear fan! The BBC version, NOT the US version. US version was AWFUL!! I only watched one episode and turned it off part way through. Top gear is the greatest show on earth
Scott
I cross to my subs at 80hz and have done that almost exclusively for quite some time. I like the blend that it gives without making the lower frequencies at localizable, just as you stated. I have tried other crossover frequencies but haven't found them to be too successful for my tastes.
I don't know what all the specs are as far as dB peaks go but I have yet to blow any drivers or experience any significant distortion that would make me want to turn the system down.
Note: This is not related to the Alp12's as I just got them up and running; this is from previous experience. I have yet to even attempt loudness levels that may possibly damage the drivers. I got pretty loud last night and the drivers were barely moving so I think they'll do just great
Scott
Couldn't you just replace the front panel?
Good job. I almost built a pair of Super Pensils, but opted for the Studio Monitors instead. Mine are just a developmental project, so if I did the Super Pensils I was afraid of getting too attached to them!
I could try but it would end up being a lot of finish work as they are completely glued solid. So I'd have to cut it out the cut a new panel and get it in there. Its such an easy build that it will probably only take me a little over an hour to get a new box all cut and glued up. Then another hour or so to cut the hole and do all the sanding. Its really a very simple build. The complicated part is the bracing but that shouldn't be bad either with the Jasper Jig. That thing is amazing!!
The studio monitors are cool! Nice choice. I really like floor standers and wanted more bass so I opted for the biggest. WAF is not an issue.
Scott
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