Exactly - however I might prove me wrong at a later stage hehe!
Say one used 1" thick baffle, this create a "tunnel" for the driver to breathe through which isnt good. Chamfering the back with a router will help in that regard.
As I mentioned I am using 12mm MDF and have a 45deg chamfer bevelling 2/3 of the wall thickness. I will use 4 internal formers/bracing plus top/bottom cover and also 20 or so small wedges glued to the baffle between the drivers. This will transfer any force applied to the baffle over to the cabinet sides. Atleast thats my theory
I need to do the same with mine but isnt it fun spreading them all out on the table??
Small driver but in quantity it certainly add up in size!
I am already hating this 2014 year... bricks after bricks coming down...
After telling me that he had the drivers ready and counted, the local guy just emailed me that he can only have 43 drivers for me... I'll be 7 short of full 25-driver towers.
Not easy....
Maybe there will be a bright side. The Chinese factory finally replied to me. Took them more than 2 weeks! And it's not starting well... First message was: "Hello, I want to buy 54 units of the VIFA TC9FD 18-08". The reply was: "Thank you for writing to us. Which model do you want to buy and how many?"
After telling me that he had the drivers ready and counted, the local guy just emailed me that he can only have 43 drivers for me... I'll be 7 short of full 25-driver towers.
Not easy....
Maybe there will be a bright side. The Chinese factory finally replied to me. Took them more than 2 weeks! And it's not starting well... First message was: "Hello, I want to buy 54 units of the VIFA TC9FD 18-08". The reply was: "Thank you for writing to us. Which model do you want to buy and how many?"
Going 16 drivers per column will give me enough units to add a center and a couple of surrounds.
My sofa (listening/watching position) is very close to the back wall, but I can't use it to mount the back surrounds. So, I have a set on the ceiling now. I am thinking of using a combination of 4 drivers (wired 2-2) fanned out towards the center of the sofa.
Here's a quick drawing of it:
My sofa (listening/watching position) is very close to the back wall, but I can't use it to mount the back surrounds. So, I have a set on the ceiling now. I am thinking of using a combination of 4 drivers (wired 2-2) fanned out towards the center of the sofa.
Here's a quick drawing of it:
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Got a good reply from China... $10.50 per Vifa TC9FD, not bad. And about $60 for shipping.
I'll do a test box with the cheap drivers, probably sell them to cover the price of the Vifas... he he!
For now, since I only have 16 drivers per array, what if I went with an inclined baffle? Trying to widen the listening area a bit. Would that work?
I'll do a test box with the cheap drivers, probably sell them to cover the price of the Vifas... he he!
For now, since I only have 16 drivers per array, what if I went with an inclined baffle? Trying to widen the listening area a bit. Would that work?
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That is a bummer, hope you will find a resource for the required amount soon enough.
It helped a great deal to have the drivers on hand when I made the baffle...
An inclined arrangement will change the reflection pattern from the line array reducing the "true line array" radiation effect. So it all depends on where you want to go with this
An inclined baffle looks good though 
That's alright, waiting ... I've got other projects on the burner. I'm waiting on some kind of time-frame for the next Vifas production, but even that will have to wait as we are starting a short holiday here in Asia: Tomb Sweeping Festival. It's a time when Chinese people will go back to their family's burial place and clean the tombs of their ancestors. It's a national holiday.
In the mean time, I have that 16-cheaper-driver array to build. I'm still surprised at those little things. I'm sure they are not to the level of the Vifas, but they sound pretty good for the price.
The array will not be placed on the floor, but on a shelf (see that pic from the first page). I thought about the inclined baffle as a mean to widen the vertical spread. From listening to my test box with 9 drivers, I have to be within the column of drivers to hear the full spectrum... as soon as my head goes over the last driver, I loose all high frequencies. Listening in the sweet spot is nice, but walking around the room, not so...
Still, 16 drivers may be enough to not require an inclined baffle.
Since you guys seem to think it is a bad idea, I'll forget about it.
In the mean time, I have that 16-cheaper-driver array to build. I'm still surprised at those little things. I'm sure they are not to the level of the Vifas, but they sound pretty good for the price.
The array will not be placed on the floor, but on a shelf (see that pic from the first page). I thought about the inclined baffle as a mean to widen the vertical spread. From listening to my test box with 9 drivers, I have to be within the column of drivers to hear the full spectrum... as soon as my head goes over the last driver, I loose all high frequencies. Listening in the sweet spot is nice, but walking around the room, not so...
Still, 16 drivers may be enough to not require an inclined baffle.
Since you guys seem to think it is a bad idea, I'll forget about it.
Perceval, fwiw I have no actual experience with arrays yet, inclined or otherwise So dont put to much stock in my opinions on the matter
The forte of line array is the virtual increase of a properly sized line - if I got that right that is. Should a project fail experience is never the less gained
So dont put to much stock in my opinions on the matter The forte of line array is the virtual increase of a properly sized line - if I got that right that is. Should a project fail experience is never the less gained
Alright, I have now received all 36 drivers. Two columns of 16 drivers each, plus a center channel with 4 drivers in a combination yet to be defined.
Plus, I may have found a good solution for EQ. I bought a Presonus 1818vsl a while back, to do some band recordings and live shows. Unfortunately, the software live part of that unit is flawed, and it hasn't been fixed by Presonus in over 2 years... (don't get me started on that one..
)
Since I am not using it as advertised, I figured I might give it a shot as a digital-analog pre-amp. I'm using my Yamaha receiver for the amp part.
Worked pretty nicely! The sound really cleaned up. I guess the converters and pre-amps in the Presonus are much better.
With that combination, I can add EQ with graphical curve, compressor, limiter, reverb and delay, if needed. Plus, I can save "scenes" and recall them for different kinds of sound, for example, between a classical show or a full fledge action/sci-fi movie!
Also, I'm wondering if I should start a new build thread, since these are not line source anymore (baby towers, maybe?).
Plus, I may have found a good solution for EQ. I bought a Presonus 1818vsl a while back, to do some band recordings and live shows. Unfortunately, the software live part of that unit is flawed, and it hasn't been fixed by Presonus in over 2 years... (don't get me started on that one..
)Since I am not using it as advertised, I figured I might give it a shot as a digital-analog pre-amp. I'm using my Yamaha receiver for the amp part.
Worked pretty nicely! The sound really cleaned up. I guess the converters and pre-amps in the Presonus are much better.
With that combination, I can add EQ with graphical curve, compressor, limiter, reverb and delay, if needed. Plus, I can save "scenes" and recall them for different kinds of sound, for example, between a classical show or a full fledge action/sci-fi movie!
Also, I'm wondering if I should start a new build thread, since these are not line source anymore (baby towers, maybe?).
Hmmm, I tried to measure the T/S param of the little driver I have, but I must be doing something wrong as I only get a flat line from REW. I see both inputs of the soundcard getting a signal, but REW comes out saying the FPS was too low and shows a flat "0" at Impedance.
Oh well, there are still a lot of things I don't understand in life!
Oh well, there are still a lot of things I don't understand in life!
The T/S param measurement is tricky if you did not do the calibration correct with a known value resistor first. You also need to calibrate your sound card with a loopback cable. It took me a few tries but once I got it, it works like a charm and cost nothing... Looking forward to your array build.
Well, this project has come to a halt.
I have come to realise that my drivers are... well... not so good. They look much better on paper than in real life.
I've been running them for a while now, trying to break them in, but the sound remains tiny, high pitched and ... trying to put this into words... scratchy. Very "Radio Shack". Very disappointing considering they were 20$ each.
I found a recording of the VIFA TD9 on Youtube, and even the recording done from a small camera on Youtube sounds better than my drivers.
So, they will stay in small towers of 9 drivers each, and be used for... oh, I don't know yet.
I need to have access to better drivers. For that, I will need a distributor for VIFA or other respectable brand that will not charge double just for shipping. Time will tell.
The place I live is very nice, but there are some drawbacks.
For now, I have a bit of a broken heart because I really wanted to build those.... Instead, I will focus on smaller projects until something comes up.
Thanks for all the help so far. I might be calling upon you again... soon if possible!
I like the idea of listening to music while moving around in the room too, so I looked into the line-array stuff at one time, but the cost of 30~40 drivers scared me out of it.
I have recently tried out some 3~4" FR drivers, here are some of my notes:
* tests were done using a pair of folded Voigt pipe. I used the TQWTL calculator worksheet to get the dimensions, using 55Hz as resonance frequency. The design is for a 4" driver, I used adaptor plates to mount smaller drivers.
-- TC9FD-18-08: I bought these because of the hype, also because the OB I was looking into, the Manzanita DIY V2, uses them. The sound is very smooth and full, no obvious problem, even the bass felt strong ( not much low bass but enough upper/mid bass, for me anyway).... except there is this layer of haze in the sound, I just don't get the "live" feel. Great for playing background music but that is about all I can use it for. Now the Qts of this driver is 0.89 which is a bit too high for the Voigt pipe, not sure if that have caused that layer of haze. ($12/ea from parts-express)
-- TangBand W3-881SJF: picked those for the 0.4 Qts which is supposedly a perfect fit for Voigt pipes. Better transparency than the TC9FD, good enough to give the "live" feel.. Very very very warm sounding, if you want that "tube" sound out of semi-conductor gear, these might be the ticket. not much bottom end, top end is a bit soft, but the mids are good. I'd say good for TV/movie use. ($22/ea from parts-express)
-- Vifa NE123W-08: this is the FR driver used in commercial Manzanita speakers, and I really like how they sound when I heard them at the RMAF, so I bought a pair to try them out. The 0.35 Qts is supposedly a good fit for the Voigt pipes. The sound is transparent, really gives that "there" feel. Very realistic vocal. Bass goes deeper than TC9FD and is much cleaner, but because the quality is so good it keeps me wanting more. Top end has enough sparkle (for me at least). If I end up building line arrays, this is probably the drivers to use, but they an't cheap... I just don't see myself ordering 30 of them @ $80/each
Not sure what you mean by haze in the tc9fd? They sound crystal clear and measurements of freq response and impulse response show this. It may be your amp - Try a TPA3116d2. The ne123w is a mid range not full range so cannot be used as the only driver in a full range line array.
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XRK, there are many grades of "crystal clear" ... I know you are a great fan of TC9FD's, but there is a limit on how far $12 drivers can go.
Don't get me wrong, the TC9FD is great for the price. I never said the TC9FD sounds bad, just not nearly as good as the NE123W. Try some NE123W, then you can sense the TC9FD's "haze" yourself
NE123W goes lower (Fs=61Hz) than the TC9FD (Fs=125hz), mid-range?
I know you are a great fan of TC9FD's, but there is a limit on how far $12 drivers can go.Don't get me wrong, the TC9FD is great for the price. I never said the TC9FD sounds bad, just not nearly as good as the NE123W. Try some NE123W, then you can sense the TC9FD's "haze" yourself
NE123W goes lower (Fs=61Hz) than the TC9FD (Fs=125hz), mid-range?
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