The Dynaudio was not an underhung design. My guess is with full baffle step comp, and the sensitivity of the design, you netted the requirement of more power right off the bat. It's probably the resultant sensitivity that made that issue.
If the motor structure is properly designed, no. Unless the sensitivity is a lot lower for the underhung driver.
Later,
Wolf
If the motor structure is properly designed, no. Unless the sensitivity is a lot lower for the underhung driver.
Later,
Wolf
Depends on the design of the driver. There is no generality I can make here.
Later,
Wolf
An AR series may be able to do the first hump but the second hump would be problematic.
Generally for any series xo, look for a driver that rolls off smoothly in 1 action with no major rises or dips in this roll off. When it starts to roll off it has to keep going down and not spike back up to high levels again. Minor dips and peaks in the roll off is fine but the emphasis is the roll off shape.... down, down.
When doing any xo, the acoustic roll off from the driver is combined with the electrical filter to give the final slope. What I start with is usually a driver where the acoustic slope is already heading in the riight direction and use that as a foundation for the final acoustic slope with a less complex electrical filter.
Unlike Parallel xo's, correction is more difficult in series xo's.
Two/three weeks ago I changed the XT25 and started using SB29RDC.
Now i am using SS 15W8530K00 and SB 29RDC crossed at 2,5Khz
This is my current XO may not be the last. Acoustic slope about 9db
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Up-date to the Previous XO:
For a more present mid band, i decrease the value of the cap 20uF to 13,6uF(6,8+6,8).
Notch for 800hz (22uF+10ohms+3mH) is optional, but recommended.
If you want more BSC you can increase Coil 1mH to 1,2mH, but in my set up i prefer 1mH.
Looks good, how do they sound ? When trying to increase BSC by using a 1.2 as opposed to a 1.0 coil, does this cause a dip in response ? The SS woofer is way out of my league price wise! Hypothetical question if looking for a substitute woofer what perimeters need to be addressed ? Vas, Qes,Qms, Qts, Re, Le.... and why ? Just trying to obtain a greater grasp for speaker design. I have on several occasions had to replace tweeters, some which where no longer available. Most of the time I had a good result....
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I have used and tuned different series crossover over two years and I am really enjoying the sound of this one, with well-integrated units.
Have not tried 1,2mH.
I think it is not so easy.
Each unit has its roll off natural. This are an important parameter.
You can have a XO with electrical 6dB, but the unit have its own roll of, so whit this 6db XO you can have for example 9db acoustical.
see excellent post 64
With a different driver you have a different slope, and have to adjust XO.
I have a good experience with discontinued Peerless 832873 Nomex driver. Very good price/quality.
Sorry,
but I made a mistake when transcribed to paper, this schematic.
The resistance 5.6 ohms is in the wrong place.
This is the correct Schematic
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I have recently ventured into the realm of series XO's with the help of a few members here on the forum. With that said, I have gone slightly out of the norm with a 2-way using a Vifa P21WO-20 8" woofer and Fostex FE103E fullrange as the mid/tweeter.
As far as the XO is concerned, I have a Solen 51uF cap across the Vifa and an unknown value iron-core inductor across the Fostex. There's also a 10 ohm/10 watt resistor in parallel on the Fostex to pad it down a bit as well as another unknown value iron-core inductor in parallel on the woofer to help correct for phase and a slightly steeper 2nd order slope.
To get a real grasp on an actual XO point and help improve the sound a bit more, I just ordered a pair of Erse 3.0mH 18awg air-core inductors to go on the Fostex drivers which have a DCR of 0.93 ohms. I'm thinking of going with another pair of 3.0mH inductors on the Vifa's, but this time go with the Erse 16awg iron-core inductors as they have a much lower DCR of 0.178 ohms.
I'm shooting for around a 700Hz XO point and this combo should give me that. I'm just not 100% certain on going with the iron-core inductors on the woofers matter or not and just go with the same ones as on the Fostex drivers.
And on a side note, I have a pair of Dayton DC28F-8 tweeters sitting on top of the 2-ways as a super tweeter/ambiance tweeter. They are using a pair of Dayton 3.0uF film caps in series for a total of 1.5uF, crossing them over around 13kHz as well as a 3.3 ohm resistor to pad them down just a tad.
This is a very very good sounding setup, so much so that I have retired my trusted NHT 2.9's from the 2-ch setup and moved them into my HT system. I can only imagine that replacing/upgrading those inductors in the XO's will improve things even more.
As far as the XO is concerned, I have a Solen 51uF cap across the Vifa and an unknown value iron-core inductor across the Fostex. There's also a 10 ohm/10 watt resistor in parallel on the Fostex to pad it down a bit as well as another unknown value iron-core inductor in parallel on the woofer to help correct for phase and a slightly steeper 2nd order slope.
To get a real grasp on an actual XO point and help improve the sound a bit more, I just ordered a pair of Erse 3.0mH 18awg air-core inductors to go on the Fostex drivers which have a DCR of 0.93 ohms. I'm thinking of going with another pair of 3.0mH inductors on the Vifa's, but this time go with the Erse 16awg iron-core inductors as they have a much lower DCR of 0.178 ohms.
I'm shooting for around a 700Hz XO point and this combo should give me that. I'm just not 100% certain on going with the iron-core inductors on the woofers matter or not and just go with the same ones as on the Fostex drivers.
And on a side note, I have a pair of Dayton DC28F-8 tweeters sitting on top of the 2-ways as a super tweeter/ambiance tweeter. They are using a pair of Dayton 3.0uF film caps in series for a total of 1.5uF, crossing them over around 13kHz as well as a 3.3 ohm resistor to pad them down just a tad.
This is a very very good sounding setup, so much so that I have retired my trusted NHT 2.9's from the 2-ch setup and moved them into my HT system. I can only imagine that replacing/upgrading those inductors in the XO's will improve things even more.
Hi Everyone this is the first time I have posted here. I have a pair of speakers that have a SS15w8530k01 and a 3/4 SS 2010 tweeter. I have never been happy with the sound of these speakers. They always seem strained no matter how much power you give them. Once you get them going the woofers bottom out. They sound more like a refined panel speaker with a lack of dynamics. I hear that the SS 15 gives a strong bass response but I have yet to hear that either. I was wondering if I might try a series crossover with this combo. The box is OD 14" H x 8.5 W X 11 D and has a front port. All panels are 1 inch thick. Is the box size OK? Maybe I am just expecting to much, Thanks.
I have the same woofer in a 15L rear vented box. Vent is 2 inches X 9 inches long. Fb is about 42 hz. AT 1M the woofer is down 3 dB @ 60 hz and the vent is down 6 dB @ 30 hz. Great bass. It also helps if the speakers are reasonably close to a rear wall to take advantage of the vent's output reflecting out into the room.
Which 2010 tweeter? D2010-851300?
This tweeter could be holding the speaker back as the 15W8530 series are extremely good.
Troel's has some info about this tweeter when used too low.
SP38/13
bathtub
If you are keen and game you could try this AR series xo for the 15W8530 + D2010-851300. It's untried as I do not have the drivers here but have done a lot with Revelator mid woofers over the years. It would be a good starting point with a crossover around 3.2k.
L1=0.1mH 16AWG min
R1=6R8 10W
C1=20uF MKP
L2=1.2mH 18AWG
Cz=4.7uF MKP
Rz=5R6 10W
C=1.5uF
R=8R2
The CR (C+R) across the tweeter is optional but is there to tame the tweeter rising response.
R1 is for tweeter padding and for more top end reduce (no lower than 3R9) and increase for less top end. Have 4R7, 5R6 and 7R5 handy.
Cz can be changed for more or less mids. Increase for less mids and decrease for more mids. Have caps available to make up between 3.3uF to 8.2uF.
Have fun and see if it improves the current situation.
If you are keen and game you could try this AR series xo for the 15W8530 + D2010-851300. It's untried as I do not have the drivers here but have done a lot with Revelator mid woofers over the years. It would be a good starting point with a crossover around 3.2k.
L1=0.1mH 16AWG min
R1=6R8 10W
C1=20uF MKP
L2=1.2mH 18AWG
Cz=4.7uF MKP
Rz=5R6 10W
C=1.5uF
R=8R2
The CR (C+R) across the tweeter is optional but is there to tame the tweeter rising response.
R1 is for tweeter padding and for more top end reduce (no lower than 3R9) and increase for less top end. Have 4R7, 5R6 and 7R5 handy.
Cz can be changed for more or less mids. Increase for less mids and decrease for more mids. Have caps available to make up between 3.3uF to 8.2uF.
Have fun and see if it improves the current situation.
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I think the AR is easier just because you can sim it in LspCAD and PCD pretty easy. I can't get the LC Audio version to sim properly in LspCAD and no way to double check in PCD.
In that above schematic, you can move L2 to be series between the woofer and the middle connecting wire. That way the speakers have (somewhat) of a direct connection to the amplifier. Same value coil, different location, but does the same thing.
In that above schematic, you can move L2 to be series between the woofer and the middle connecting wire. That way the speakers have (somewhat) of a direct connection to the amplifier. Same value coil, different location, but does the same thing.
dabbler
The NS6 (FR as per the pic?) would not be the best for an AR series as it has that spike between 4k-5k and it is quite wideband. Could be done but needs some work. For AR series I look for a roll off starting about 1 octave above the crossover point.
The Peerless 830875 has a similar spike and had to cross over around 2k to minimise it but it was not completely gone. Crossing over that low does place additional load on the tweeter.
The SEAS W15LY001 was too wide band to work properly in an AR series even after several attempts.
So you get the idea.
I've used 27TFFC in series crossovers and had no issues plus was better than the 27TDFC.
Look for mid woofers with behaviours like the SS 18W8531G00 or Vifa P17WJ-00-08.
The NS6 (FR as per the pic?) would not be the best for an AR series as it has that spike between 4k-5k and it is quite wideband. Could be done but needs some work. For AR series I look for a roll off starting about 1 octave above the crossover point.
The Peerless 830875 has a similar spike and had to cross over around 2k to minimise it but it was not completely gone. Crossing over that low does place additional load on the tweeter.
The SEAS W15LY001 was too wide band to work properly in an AR series even after several attempts.
So you get the idea.
I've used 27TFFC in series crossovers and had no issues plus was better than the 27TDFC.
Look for mid woofers with behaviours like the SS 18W8531G00 or Vifa P17WJ-00-08.
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