Thanks, Helmuth. Those Helsinki Gradient 1.5s work extremely well in this room, helping make both the TD124 and the Beolab 5000 amplifier shine.
I'm looking for a Revox PR99 reel-to-reel to add to the setup, and will be selling the Beogram 4000 on the left, to make room for the reel-to-reel!
I'm looking for a Revox PR99 reel-to-reel to add to the setup, and will be selling the Beogram 4000 on the left, to make room for the reel-to-reel!
I will be a elephant in a porcelain-closet to you because I think the beolab 5000 seems outdated for a high performance reproduction.
Try a class-D ice module from B&O to compare. I believe stigEric sells them build in a enclosure
You would be wrong, but that's OK. Totally refurbished, to more precise than original factory spec's. Brilliant sound.
I moved my off topic SPU posts and all of the responses to a new thread in the hope they don't become impossible to find as this thread and that one become less active.Hello everyone,
I am restoring a TD124 II and I have a problem. I can not get the image of the strobe remains stable. What you get is an image that moves back and forth at the same time (one step forward and one step back) so that, ultimately, the points are within the window. I also detect that the image moves a bit up and down. Is this normal? Is it possible to get a perfectly static points?
If this is a problem, how can it be solved?
Regards, Francisco
I am restoring a TD124 II and I have a problem. I can not get the image of the strobe remains stable. What you get is an image that moves back and forth at the same time (one step forward and one step back) so that, ultimately, the points are within the window. I also detect that the image moves a bit up and down. Is this normal? Is it possible to get a perfectly static points?
If this is a problem, how can it be solved?
Regards, Francisco
No, not normal at all.. Should be very stable, initially may run a bit slow and then as the motor and lubricants warm up it will achieve set speed and should not budge.
Please tell us what work have you done on this table so far?
Have you serviced the motor, cleaned and lubed the main bearing and intermediate pulley bearing?
Have you polished the intermediate pulley and motor pulley surfaces with crocus cloth?
Condition of belt and idler? Whose belt are you using? Feel free to post pictures if you have means.
Has the platter ever been separated from the spindle assembly and if so what did you do to make sure it was centered when you reinstalled it?
Mine is dead stable after a short warm up period.. I'm just as thrilled with it as the last time I posted an update some months ago..
Probably good idea to read most of the thread, a lot of your questions will be answered.
Hi, your question is a little bit confusing.
This is what it should look like, when running, with the bottom line of dots becoming stable when the turntable achieves speed.
Any variation will then be very slow motion to the left (too fast) or right (too slow), which you adjust with the trim on top of the speed selector.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0lPJS8cQFw
The first thing to check, before the items in the post above, is whether your eddy current brake is correctly set. This you will find under the platter - you move the magnet back and forth, according to the following instructions.
Don't unscrew the magnet completely, all you have to do is to just loosen the screw. And have a firm grip on the magnet, after having noted its position.
Closer to the brake, slows the platter down - dots to the right; farther away, speeds it up - dots to the left.
Study "Adjusting the Eddy Current Brake" here:
Thorens TD 124 / TD124 Mk2 and TD-224 Legendary Vintage Turntables
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I wouldn't mess with the eddy current brake until you are quite certain it isn't anything else. Just make sure the magnet and pulley do not contact.
In particular with the Zamac platter you must take some care to make sure it is properly centered on the spindle otherwise it will be eccentric about its axis and will wobble back and forth as it rotates, and this will create quite a lot of wow.. One way to check is if the idler mechanism is moving around at all when the table is running it means the platter is off center.
The extreme wow thus created will manifest itself as the dots in the strobe moving back and forth as you describe. The wobble changes the effective radius of the platter as it rotates and will cause the strobe pattern to speed up and slow down and move around in the window as well.
The eddy current brake generally needs to be adjusted somewhat once the table has been serviced.
In particular with the Zamac platter you must take some care to make sure it is properly centered on the spindle otherwise it will be eccentric about its axis and will wobble back and forth as it rotates, and this will create quite a lot of wow.. One way to check is if the idler mechanism is moving around at all when the table is running it means the platter is off center.
The extreme wow thus created will manifest itself as the dots in the strobe moving back and forth as you describe. The wobble changes the effective radius of the platter as it rotates and will cause the strobe pattern to speed up and slow down and move around in the window as well.
The eddy current brake generally needs to be adjusted somewhat once the table has been serviced.
Thanks for your responses.
The turntable was serviced before I bought it. I don´t know who or how this job was done but the inside of the turntable looks shimmering and like new. It´s a sn#69036 bought from a German guy 3 years ago and since almost not in use.
This turntable came with the Zamac platter. I replaced it recently for one from Mirko (stainless steel). The turntable have the same problem with both platters. As Kevin says, the platter must be centered but Zamac platter (and specially Mirko platter) has a center hole with so tight tolerances that I can´t see how to do it. Could you describe the process?
Although the original main bearing/spindle seems to be ok (it takes fifty sec. to stop from 33rpm) I also bought a new one from Mirko. This allowed me to see if it was the bearing/spindle that failed, but again the same problem. I must say at first I thought the problem could be the original spindle, because I noticed that the thinner shaft (where the platter hole enters) was slightly tilted.
I think the problem can only come either from the platter or the bearing, then right now I´m lost...
(I'm trying to read the entire thread but it´s a difficult task for someone who does not speak English fluently)
The turntable was serviced before I bought it. I don´t know who or how this job was done but the inside of the turntable looks shimmering and like new. It´s a sn#69036 bought from a German guy 3 years ago and since almost not in use.
This turntable came with the Zamac platter. I replaced it recently for one from Mirko (stainless steel). The turntable have the same problem with both platters. As Kevin says, the platter must be centered but Zamac platter (and specially Mirko platter) has a center hole with so tight tolerances that I can´t see how to do it. Could you describe the process?
Although the original main bearing/spindle seems to be ok (it takes fifty sec. to stop from 33rpm) I also bought a new one from Mirko. This allowed me to see if it was the bearing/spindle that failed, but again the same problem. I must say at first I thought the problem could be the original spindle, because I noticed that the thinner shaft (where the platter hole enters) was slightly tilted.
I think the problem can only come either from the platter or the bearing, then right now I´m lost...
(I'm trying to read the entire thread but it´s a difficult task for someone who does not speak English fluently)
Mirko's platter is self centering - no adjustment needed.
You will need to go through and troubleshoot the table step by step as discussed.
First make sure you removed the intermediate spacer on the spindle before you install Mirko's upgrade.
I would check to make sure that the main bearing turns freely and is not too tight - did you replace yours with one of Mirko's?
You mention that part of the spindle is bent, this is probably the cause of your problem since Mirko does not sell replacement spindles. If you have a glass sheet place at the edge of a table and line up the flange at the edge and try rolling the spindle across the glass and notice whether it clicks or otherwise appears to be bent, this would explain the whole issue.
Check and see if a machine shop can straighten the spindle otherwise you will need to either purchase a new spindle from Schopper in Switzerland or perhaps get lucky and score one on eBay.. (Unlikely at the moment.)
Run without the platter in place and look for obvious signs of trouble..
Please take some pictures and post here, and let us know about any other modifications..
You will need to go through and troubleshoot the table step by step as discussed.
First make sure you removed the intermediate spacer on the spindle before you install Mirko's upgrade.
I would check to make sure that the main bearing turns freely and is not too tight - did you replace yours with one of Mirko's?
You mention that part of the spindle is bent, this is probably the cause of your problem since Mirko does not sell replacement spindles. If you have a glass sheet place at the edge of a table and line up the flange at the edge and try rolling the spindle across the glass and notice whether it clicks or otherwise appears to be bent, this would explain the whole issue.
Check and see if a machine shop can straighten the spindle otherwise you will need to either purchase a new spindle from Schopper in Switzerland or perhaps get lucky and score one on eBay.. (Unlikely at the moment.)
Run without the platter in place and look for obvious signs of trouble..
Please take some pictures and post here, and let us know about any other modifications..
Yes, I removed the intermediate spacer before install the Mirko platter.
Kevin, I have two sets bearing/spindle, one original and one provided by Mirko (he also produced the spindle for me). As I said, the original spindle is slightly bent (really little) then in the zone where the platter rest the effect is probably insignificant. The fact is that installing the Mirko bearing/spindle (which is quite straight) I get the same odd behaviour of the dots in the strobe moving back and forth, up and down (two millimeters or so respect the center point).
From my point of view, the only cause that can explain this problem is some kind of eccentricity in the platter or on the shaft but it is almost impossible that this failure is manifested in two sets platter / bearing / spindle completely different ... I'm wondering if there might be another reason that escapes me ... Any idea?
I think it's a priority to resolve this issue before undertaking other actions, don´t you think so?
I´ll try take some pics this week in order to provide more info.
Kevin, I have two sets bearing/spindle, one original and one provided by Mirko (he also produced the spindle for me). As I said, the original spindle is slightly bent (really little) then in the zone where the platter rest the effect is probably insignificant. The fact is that installing the Mirko bearing/spindle (which is quite straight) I get the same odd behaviour of the dots in the strobe moving back and forth, up and down (two millimeters or so respect the center point).
From my point of view, the only cause that can explain this problem is some kind of eccentricity in the platter or on the shaft but it is almost impossible that this failure is manifested in two sets platter / bearing / spindle completely different ... I'm wondering if there might be another reason that escapes me ... Any idea?
I think it's a priority to resolve this issue before undertaking other actions, don´t you think so?
I´ll try take some pics this week in order to provide more info.
I agree, I'm stumped.. It is time to get some gauges, then learn how to use them and do some measurements of the platter and the bearing assembly to see if they are all true. I assume they are. I also assume that the spindle in both cases is fully seated in the bearing housing.
Have a look at user510's posts and take a look at his site here: TD124 Dept
Pay particular attention to where he discusses measuring worn parts for tolerances, etc. You may need to do something like this to identify the source of the problem if there is not something visually obvious with the platter off..
Have a look at user510's posts and take a look at his site here: TD124 Dept
Pay particular attention to where he discusses measuring worn parts for tolerances, etc. You may need to do something like this to identify the source of the problem if there is not something visually obvious with the platter off..
Yes, I'll have to systematize the search. The problem is that the elements of testing are not very common (micrometer, comparator, etc.)..
Last night I went to bed thinking about the mechanics of movement of the platter / spindle as other factors may influence on the tachometer inestability, I finally fell asleep very late and with a big headache ...
Last night I went to bed thinking about the mechanics of movement of the platter / spindle as other factors may influence on the tachometer inestability, I finally fell asleep very late and with a big headache ...
Fortunately the parts are readily available and there are plenty of knowledgeable people around to help..
You may have to purchase the required measurement tools on line, many can be purchased on eBay or at LittleMachineShop.com - tooling, parts, and accessories for bench top machinists Not likely to run much money compared to what you have already sunk in this table.
You should verify that all of the moving parts turn freely, and that the motor has truly been properly serviced.
I purchased mine nearly a year ago now, and the restoration work was successfully concluded about six months ago - in that time I have run this table for something close to 1000 hrs with no problems beyond the first 200 hrs or so. Once it's truly sorted out you should find it more than satisfactory in every way. As you might have gathered this wasn't a cheap project and there were a few moments where things didn't appear to be coming together quite as expected, but with perseverance the end result is way beyond my original expectations.
It's playing right now in fact..
You may have to purchase the required measurement tools on line, many can be purchased on eBay or at LittleMachineShop.com - tooling, parts, and accessories for bench top machinists Not likely to run much money compared to what you have already sunk in this table.
You should verify that all of the moving parts turn freely, and that the motor has truly been properly serviced.
I purchased mine nearly a year ago now, and the restoration work was successfully concluded about six months ago - in that time I have run this table for something close to 1000 hrs with no problems beyond the first 200 hrs or so. Once it's truly sorted out you should find it more than satisfactory in every way. As you might have gathered this wasn't a cheap project and there were a few moments where things didn't appear to be coming together quite as expected, but with perseverance the end result is way beyond my original expectations.
It's playing right now in fact..
Tonight I scored a TD-124 cast iron platter as well as a good spindle.. The plan is to install the cast iron platter on my TD-124/II which might entail some other modifications to prevent problems with my SPU, and to install the spindle, zamac platter, and refurbished main bearing on my other TD-124...
Eventually I should be able to collect all of the bits and pieces to restore that 124..
Eventually I should be able to collect all of the bits and pieces to restore that 124..
Hi Kevin,
That 60Hz hum is VERY present on my table (mk1) as soon as I plug it in and becomes worse when I actually switch the motor on, so much so that I can't listen to it at all, I hear the hum through the music. I suspect a groung problem but I checked everything under the tt and all is fine.
Unless the problem stems from the cheap replacement power cable I installed (standard electrical lamp power cord)???
Any ideas?
Thanks
Problem fixed... ran a extra wire from the motor/chassis ground to the amp ground... dead silent now!
Good news, I meant to ask whether or not everything was properly grounded. Now it apparently is..
hi kevin, like you i am looking at a thorens 125 or 124mkII and want to use a sme series III arm with a zu cartridge.
i mailed zuaudio to ask if their cartridge is compatible with the sme arm and they told me the sme arm needs a little counterweight.
how does this cartridge perform on this table and your sme II arm.
and is there a post somewhere in this thread that explains all the steps you have taken and maybe info about where you acquired all the things needed for your restoration.
cheers.
i mailed zuaudio to ask if their cartridge is compatible with the sme arm and they told me the sme arm needs a little counterweight.
how does this cartridge perform on this table and your sme II arm.
and is there a post somewhere in this thread that explains all the steps you have taken and maybe info about where you acquired all the things needed for your restoration.
cheers.