Thank you Andrew! None of the people in this thread could have possibly imagined that concept before you introduced it here but saying it is quite a bit easier than doing it in practice. I suspect you concur that different resistors may alter the original recorded waveforms in some different manner; given that you actually have a perfect signal playback source but the root question is whether they are audible. Whether these small introduced differences are audible depends on where in the circuit they are placed and the nature of the distortion introduced. In my experience, some types of distortions are more damaging than others but I'd like to hear your thoughts on where the threshold of audibility generally is. What kind of distortion at what level matters and what is the likely sonic result? If you can't answer this, perhaps marce and DF96 can help 
As the only purpose of an amplifier is to amplify a signal I don't regard it as dogmatic to require it to do this competently i.e. linearly. Those who want response shaping can add this using tone controls. Those who want added distortions can use an FX box, or just design their amp incompetently. Microphones, speakers and rooms will always add their own problems, but why not at least ensure that the easy part (the electronics in the middle) simply does what it is supposed to do?terrences said:
On the contrary, your approach will add "hairline waveforms" which are not meant to be there.
This is a common plea from those who don't really understand signals. Audio is simple when compared to many other branches of electronics. It is precisely because it is so simple that people with insufficient knowledge can throw something together (or seriously degrade someone else's competent efforts by 'modding') and still get something like music coming out the other end.
Genuine audio designers are not dismissed by others, except when the so-called designers parade their relative ignorance as being a more advanced form of knowledge. Having said that, my firm belief is that any audio designer can become a better audio designer by learning about RF too.
For every problem that audio designers face, there is another branch of electronics where that same problem is much worse and harder to solve. The situation is like that of someone who has learnt to drive a small runabout car around town to do the shopping, and then says "Pah! What do Formula 1 or heavy good vehicles drivers really know?".
I cant answer that because as often pointed out to me I have...
Cloth ears (from up North in England you see) not part of the GEB...
And my system is not revealing enough for the minutiae of difference to be audible....
And finally I don't always trust my perceptions as I know they can be fooled...
There are many here who are Audio designers who I respect and for these answers I look to their words of wisdom, they are far more qualified than me to provide answers...
Cloth ears (from up North in England you see) not part of the GEB...
And my system is not revealing enough for the minutiae of difference to be audible....
And finally I don't always trust my perceptions as I know they can be fooled...
There are many here who are Audio designers who I respect and for these answers I look to their words of wisdom, they are far more qualified than me to provide answers...
Yes, that was the philosophy in the THD feedback wars of the late seventies, I guess you would consider that a sonic highpoint. It's what you choose to make linear to the detriment of other attributes that defines the dogmatic approach. Sounds like you would be example numero uno.DF96 said:
When in Clark Kent mode all moderators are just ordinary people. They have to hide in a phone box and put on a Cop Hat and a cape in order to assume their super-powers.terrences said:
You are conflating two different things: low THD and adequately low distortion. As usual, it is people who don't like THD who keep mentioning it.
No, that characterises the false and misleading accusations of those who prefer a little distortion with their music. If simply requiring an amplifier to amplify (hint: the clue is in the name) is "dogmatic" then I am very proud to be known as "numero uno" but I suspect a long queue will form of people claiming the same medal for themselves.
The problem with some of the cheap amps of that era was a high distortion level and questionable stability. The only "low THD" was that required by FTC regulations, i.e., at 1kHz with a specified resistive load at a certain power level. Nonetheless, many amps of that era sounded quite transparent (defining "transparent" as being of sufficient quality that the input and output cannot be distinguished by ear alone) when not being driven into clipping.
Again, it may help to read some of the literature; that way, as questions come up, you can find the answers in work referenced in (or referencing) some of the classic publications.
When moderators post in a moderator capacity they use the cop
icon. Mods are most of the time regular users of this forum and post as such. SY as a regular user can be as neutral or as biased as any other user, just as you can.It's a nice power to be able to antagonize a poster as a regular member and then act as a moderator when the reply exposes your antagonism. SY, since you seem well versed in these studies you have encouraged me to refer to, would you be so kind as to distill those numbers to the best of your ability? A general guideline of percentages along with the nature of the distortion in about 10 lines of text would be enough to enlighten me. I don't have any issue with you or your hearing marce, your posts are sensible but there is an arrogance exhibited by other members here that I feel needs a periodic checking.
Which numbers, specifically? That's the problem with vagueness. It can't be done in 10 lines of text if what you want is thresholds (individuals? averages? tested how? what measurements specifically? etc, etc).
Read the literature if you want to learn about the things that are known and well-established (i.e., are backed up with actual evidence).
Read the literature if you want to learn about the things that are known and well-established (i.e., are backed up with actual evidence).
The only ones from that era that did refused the dogmatic approach of pursuing the lowest 1K THD number. If you have access to the publications and have diligently acquired the knowledge of their work, you should be able to recall from memory the impressions of what you read. All I require is a brief table that identifies the nature of the distortion and the audible percentage of it for the majority tested. I'm pretty sure those statistics could be presented from someone as familiar with them as you areSY said:
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My understanding is that if a moderator gets into a 'discussion' with another member which then gets sufficiently out of hand that moderator intervention is needed this is not done by the mod in question but someone else not party to the discussion. Any mod abusing his super-powers would get put straight by other mods. They have a 'staff room' to discuss these matters, which normal mortals like us cannot see.terrences said:
So don't worry, you can argue with SY as strongly as you like - provided you don't break forum rules.
I didn't open my request the way you quoted it, it originated much more humbly. What you posted was in the context of a follow up when asked for a clarification. Clearly that softens it quite a bit doesn't it? Is "bloody" a censurable word on this forum or is this your way of reprimanding me politely
We really should get back to the topic, are resistors audible? I've stated my position unambiguously and I encourage all others posting to do the same.
We really should get back to the topic, are resistors audible? I've stated my position unambiguously and I encourage all others posting to do the same.
Gentle reminder to all:
1. Stick to the thread topic.
2. Stay away from personal comments.
3. Forum rule no 12 ( http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/site-announcements/167561-diyaudio-rules.html )
Thanks.
1. Stick to the thread topic.
2. Stay away from personal comments.
3. Forum rule no 12 ( http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/site-announcements/167561-diyaudio-rules.html )
Thanks.
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