Also, the JLH should certainly be in this list:
http://www.tcaas.btinternet.co.uk/index-1.htm
I have posted Geoff Moss's latest version of schematics and pcbs on my own webspace, at least until Geoff revises his site:
http://www.members.shaw.ca/paul.r.brown/DIY/Geoff Moss JLH/
http://www.tcaas.btinternet.co.uk/index-1.htm
I have posted Geoff Moss's latest version of schematics and pcbs on my own webspace, at least until Geoff revises his site:
http://www.members.shaw.ca/paul.r.brown/DIY/Geoff Moss JLH/
Ditto on the NP comment.
A reference amp isn't necessarily the best amp out there. It's a known quantity, something that many people will have heard.
If you say XXX amp has better imaging and more sparkly highs than my GainClone, lots of people will know what to expect, because lots of people have heard a GainClone.
A reference amp isn't necessarily the best amp out there. It's a known quantity, something that many people will have heard.
If you say XXX amp has better imaging and more sparkly highs than my GainClone, lots of people will know what to expect, because lots of people have heard a GainClone.
Reference implies "The ultimate in quality and consistent, reliable reproduction of sound".
DIY implies "make it your self in whole or part and USUALLY on a budget"
With that said, in my opinion the best solution for someone looking for a "reference DIY" amp would to use a tried and proven design in a kit form.
The best kits I have seen thus far are from BrianGT and the Twisted Pair couple.
Brian sells chip amps, and Mr. Pass variants. Can't go wrong with his kits.
The Twisted Pair couple have the Mauro Pensa amp which is an intermediate kit that gets you REAL hi-end sound.. Price to performance to complexity is incredible! They also have some of Mr. Pass' designs.. (I see a pattern of designers being cloned, do you?) Once again, complete PCB and parts kits.. EXCELLENT support.
Then comes the clones that are truly DIY with the usually general exception of PCB's.
KSA-50 /100, Mini-A / A30, Leach, ESP, and such..
Those are a bit tricky for the hobbyist since MOST of the parts will be sourced by an individual who doesn't do it on a routine basis.
With all of that said, I have seen some truly beautiful amps made by complete amateurs (not professional mechanical or electrical engineers, i.e. true hobbyist) on very modest equipment and no experience.
And I have seen some truly dangerous equipment from people who should know better.
I have made about 6-8 chip amps because they are quick and easy and I give them to friends to "hook them into audio". I have made the Mauro / Twisted pair Rev_C, and am still working on my 2 KSA-50's and 2 Pass Labs A30's.. I wish I would have made one of Jen's small Leach amps, and I'm still waiting for Al to get started on the Bryston clone. Poke, poke Al.
But if someone were to really want to build a DIY reference amp I would suggest one of Mr. Pass' amps for three reasons:
1. Commonly acknowledged as quality products.
2. Lots of documentation on this and other websites about tried and proven designs.
3. The man himself bows down to help "hobbyist" on a routine basis which speaks volumes about his dedication.
DIY implies "make it your self in whole or part and USUALLY on a budget"
With that said, in my opinion the best solution for someone looking for a "reference DIY" amp would to use a tried and proven design in a kit form.
The best kits I have seen thus far are from BrianGT and the Twisted Pair couple.
Brian sells chip amps, and Mr. Pass variants. Can't go wrong with his kits.
The Twisted Pair couple have the Mauro Pensa amp which is an intermediate kit that gets you REAL hi-end sound.. Price to performance to complexity is incredible! They also have some of Mr. Pass' designs.. (I see a pattern of designers being cloned, do you?) Once again, complete PCB and parts kits.. EXCELLENT support.
Then comes the clones that are truly DIY with the usually general exception of PCB's.
KSA-50 /100, Mini-A / A30, Leach, ESP, and such..
Those are a bit tricky for the hobbyist since MOST of the parts will be sourced by an individual who doesn't do it on a routine basis.
With all of that said, I have seen some truly beautiful amps made by complete amateurs (not professional mechanical or electrical engineers, i.e. true hobbyist) on very modest equipment and no experience.
And I have seen some truly dangerous equipment from people who should know better.
I have made about 6-8 chip amps because they are quick and easy and I give them to friends to "hook them into audio". I have made the Mauro / Twisted pair Rev_C, and am still working on my 2 KSA-50's and 2 Pass Labs A30's.. I wish I would have made one of Jen's small Leach amps, and I'm still waiting for Al to get started on the Bryston clone. Poke, poke Al.
But if someone were to really want to build a DIY reference amp I would suggest one of Mr. Pass' amps for three reasons:
1. Commonly acknowledged as quality products.
2. Lots of documentation on this and other websites about tried and proven designs.
3. The man himself bows down to help "hobbyist" on a routine basis which speaks volumes about his dedication.
I've gotta put David Tilbrook's AEM6000 in as the definitive LatFET amp. Wonderfully low THD, gobs of bandwidth, DC coupled feedback loop, plenty of power, low noise input, inherently free of thermal runaway problems...
What more could a girl want for annoying the neighbors
http://www.littlefishbicycles.com/poweramp/poweramp.pdf
Cheers,
Suzy
What more could a girl want for annoying the neighbors
http://www.littlefishbicycles.com/poweramp/poweramp.pdf
Cheers,
Suzy
Long Story but true to my experience
When I first showed up at DIY Audio it was from a Google search on Nelson Pass. I struggled in and out after joining (subscribing) trying to decipher what was actually going on here. I returned to Google many more times but so many of the results generated hits that brought me back to the discussions here on DIY Audio.
So I guess initially I found the woodwork around here hard to appreciate until I got the hang of it. Then I found myself addicted to the forum and it wasn’t long ‘til I started turning up 2 year old threads like they were current. I can still do that here and there but I blame it on coffee or beer overload.
What is my point? My point is this: horus the thread starter has been looking at this forum for a year and he has made 20+ posts. That is good for a lurker but a lurker doesn’t start a new thread extending him/her into something more. Damn it there is nothing wrong with lurking either! And I’m just trying to make a point.
What is my point? My point is this: I would have hung around much sooner and much longer if I had any idea of what was really going on here. I believe my attendance started similarly as horus and so many others (you can see it in their history of posting). My initial searches of the forum were for different designs and different topologies and I found it very difficult to find what I was looking for from the welcome page and subsequent menu options. The search function is an entirely crazy beast but after a bit of practice I feel it works better for me but this comes from a person logged in heavy for almost a full year.
It takes time to get to know the designs and the designers as you catch them drift by on the main menu activity lists under each category. I have since realized that this place may be under some kind of redesign and that many things are changing. It only makes sense.
I could never say what Nelson said but I feel every design in this place could be categorized and listed near the main entrance of the welcome page. I know it gets complicated but a rough approximation of such a list could happen. I know for a fact it would have helped me in the beginning.
And after all this time hanging out here, I still have not built a Nelson Pass Amp. Perhaps I am just starting to warm up to the school of class A?
Designs I love here @ DIY; I don’t think were mentioned:
QUASI! ! This thread has a record breaking number of views and comments! Have you folks ever noticed? Check it out.
My favorite design name: Death of Gain Clone , who could come up with a cooler sounding name for an amp?
It is late; I got to etch some more PCB’s.
Killing the daylight and nighttime hours…
Shawn.
horus said:
When I first showed up at DIY Audio it was from a Google search on Nelson Pass. I struggled in and out after joining (subscribing) trying to decipher what was actually going on here. I returned to Google many more times but so many of the results generated hits that brought me back to the discussions here on DIY Audio.
So I guess initially I found the woodwork around here hard to appreciate until I got the hang of it. Then I found myself addicted to the forum and it wasn’t long ‘til I started turning up 2 year old threads like they were current. I can still do that here and there but I blame it on coffee or beer overload.
What is my point? My point is this: horus the thread starter has been looking at this forum for a year and he has made 20+ posts. That is good for a lurker but a lurker doesn’t start a new thread extending him/her into something more. Damn it there is nothing wrong with lurking either! And I’m just trying to make a point.
What is my point? My point is this: I would have hung around much sooner and much longer if I had any idea of what was really going on here. I believe my attendance started similarly as horus and so many others (you can see it in their history of posting). My initial searches of the forum were for different designs and different topologies and I found it very difficult to find what I was looking for from the welcome page and subsequent menu options. The search function is an entirely crazy beast but after a bit of practice I feel it works better for me but this comes from a person logged in heavy for almost a full year.
It takes time to get to know the designs and the designers as you catch them drift by on the main menu activity lists under each category. I have since realized that this place may be under some kind of redesign and that many things are changing. It only makes sense.
I could never say what Nelson said but I feel every design in this place could be categorized and listed near the main entrance of the welcome page. I know it gets complicated but a rough approximation of such a list could happen. I know for a fact it would have helped me in the beginning.
And after all this time hanging out here, I still have not built a Nelson Pass Amp. Perhaps I am just starting to warm up to the school of class A?
Designs I love here @ DIY; I don’t think were mentioned:
QUASI! ! This thread has a record breaking number of views and comments! Have you folks ever noticed? Check it out.
My favorite design name: Death of Gain Clone , who could come up with a cooler sounding name for an amp?
It is late; I got to etch some more PCB’s.
Killing the daylight and nighttime hours…
Shawn.
Hi all,
My reference amp is an AKSA 55. Sounds the best to my ears, so far.
IMHO
Easiest to build: Gainclone by a long margin.
Cheapest: Brian GT Gainclone or DSE SC480
Coolest schematic: SKA, haven't heard mine yet.
Hottest amp: Death of Zen, I think this is were "Death of Gainclone" name may have come from came from.
Best quality PCB: BrianGT Gainclone
Worst quality PCB: Digi125 from RCS
Best documentation: AKSA
regards
My reference amp is an AKSA 55. Sounds the best to my ears, so far.
IMHO
Easiest to build: Gainclone by a long margin.
Cheapest: Brian GT Gainclone or DSE SC480
Coolest schematic: SKA, haven't heard mine yet.
Hottest amp: Death of Zen, I think this is were "Death of Gainclone" name may have come from came from.
Best quality PCB: BrianGT Gainclone
Worst quality PCB: Digi125 from RCS
Best documentation: AKSA
regards
I think it's nice to have a truly open source project, like the Leach, Symasym, Pass or Krell projects. That way everything is in the open and all can contribute ideas to develop the project further. Whilst I have no problems with most kits where the IP is kept private for commercial reasons, it makes it difficult for people who haven't bought the amp to comment fairly on them, allowing a tiny minority of people to abuse the system.
Greg numero 1 again,
are you kidding ?
I tossed a couple of those junkclones together about a year ago, i couldn't finish Jam's A-40s fast enough after those disasters.
I have great difficulty disposing stuff i've made myself, even if i'm not using it anymore.
Undoubtedly, the two gainchits will also still be here after i've gave up looking for my teeth.
(i still have the tools my grandfather passed on to me +40 years ago)
are you kidding ?
I tossed a couple of those junkclones together about a year ago, i couldn't finish Jam's A-40s fast enough after those disasters.
I have great difficulty disposing stuff i've made myself, even if i'm not using it anymore.
Undoubtedly, the two gainchits will also still be here after i've gave up looking for my teeth.
(i still have the tools my grandfather passed on to me +40 years ago)
[sarcasm]That's because he didn't want to listen to distortion and hum! [/sarcasm]protos said:What--- no tube amps in this list?
I know this is the solid state thread but horus did not specify only SS.
(puts on flame suit)Seriously, you do bring up a good point, and I am sure that suggestions as to a reference DIY tube amp would be appreciated.
Addressing a different point, I have put together several LM3886 based amps, and the gainclone seems to be my least favorite. I regularly listen to my amp based on the Linkwitz LM3886 circuit with a couple of modifications, and that has served me pretty well. I would NOT, however, call the gainclone, or even my Linkwitz LM3886 amp a "reference" amp. Just my $0.02.
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