placebo effect
having hurled out a dirty great wedge on silver-plated, cryogenically treated, oxygen depleted (or added..) teflon and unobtainium-coated cable, you are a little more inclined than not to THINK you here a positive difference. Especially when you test in the open, and take a few minutes to effect the changeover. And mates are watching.
having hurled out a dirty great wedge on silver-plated, cryogenically treated, oxygen depleted (or added..) teflon and unobtainium-coated cable, you are a little more inclined than not to THINK you here a positive difference. Especially when you test in the open, and take a few minutes to effect the changeover. And mates are watching.
lol an example of the
breathless hyperbole that passes for reasoned comment... note the lack of a single supporting measurement of any sort. To think these snakeoil types get paid for this. http://www.vhaudio.com/reviews/stereotimescablereview.pdf
breathless hyperbole that passes for reasoned comment... note the lack of a single supporting measurement of any sort. To think these snakeoil types get paid for this. http://www.vhaudio.com/reviews/stereotimescablereview.pdf
I can take your reply in two ways.Panicos K said:
1. You really don't know the answer.
2. You are being sarcastic and looking to start a straw man argument.
If it's 2, there's no need for a debate as it is unproductive.
The benefit of the doubt would give 1 a chance in which case I would suggest you do some search across the web on terms like placebo effect, visual bias and double blind test.
There are devices that can measure smaller variations in sound that human ear cannot detect.Panicos K said:
I hope you aren't thinking about replying with "Like?" again...
Funny thing is I also conducted a similar test on 2 pairs of 8417 mono block Quicksilver amplifiers. One pair was bone stock with original power cords and the other pair I had purchased off ebay and they had mongo sized power cords.
Anyone want to guess about the power output between the two pairs?
Both measured exactly the same output power. Absolutely NO difference in bass,mids or treble response either.
Solid state amplifiers can have an increase in power. I've tested those too.
Evenharmonics said:
Just as you said it,they measure.The ear does not measure it simply hears.As I said in another thread,if nature wanted us to measure like instruments,it wouldn't grace us with ears but something else.Instruments are good at measuring what they can,and ears are good to hear what they can.
No comments on the other things you said,only that rudness is not my style.
burnedfingers said:
When a supply is stiff with no transient sag, the amp it serves tends to be perceived less dynamic near clip. For driving near clip, some sag is perceived in a positive way psycho acoustically. I remember that from Ben Duncan's High Performance Audio Power Amplifiers book. So more impedance in a chord can be preferable in some synergistic situations? Tube amps sag normally so it could not make any measurable dynamic sinusoidal power difference, or perceptional change for that matter?
oh, no no no salas!!!
"The change that the AirSine brought to my system was not at all difficult to discern, and it happened the very first time I popped a CD into the Sony and hit the play button. That first track I played was “Dance Me to the End of Love” from Madeliene Peyroux’s Careless Love album [Rounder 613192]. Amazingly, the music sounded louder. Yes, that’s right, it sounded as if I’d turned up the volume. But thanks to my Ayre integrated’s front panel display, I knew that the output level was where I’d always had it."
So there you go - its louder! Surely, that must mean better! And with precision test equipment like the panel meter on the front of his amp - this guy should know! He's an expert! He does it for a living!
However - worth noting...
"Addendum - Chris let me hang on to his cables for an unusually long time.Because of this, I was able to hear the AirSine as my system evolved (interested readers can take a look at my updated associated components list.) While my SCD-777ES has remained constant, I’ve gone through different speakers, amplifiers, digitaltoanalog converters and more. I sincerely believe, having lived with the AirSine for about a year or more, and through multiple associated component changes, that its $699 price tag is more than justified. The AirSine isn’t just another step in the upgrade merry-go-round, it’s a destination. And that’s precisely why it’s my Most Wanted Component. Eujin Hong"
So, turns out Eujin got a freebee. Otherwise known as payola. Call me cynical, but could this POSSIBLY have affected his sensitive ears?
"The change that the AirSine brought to my system was not at all difficult to discern, and it happened the very first time I popped a CD into the Sony and hit the play button. That first track I played was “Dance Me to the End of Love” from Madeliene Peyroux’s Careless Love album [Rounder 613192]. Amazingly, the music sounded louder. Yes, that’s right, it sounded as if I’d turned up the volume. But thanks to my Ayre integrated’s front panel display, I knew that the output level was where I’d always had it."
So there you go - its louder! Surely, that must mean better! And with precision test equipment like the panel meter on the front of his amp - this guy should know! He's an expert! He does it for a living!
However - worth noting...
"Addendum - Chris let me hang on to his cables for an unusually long time.Because of this, I was able to hear the AirSine as my system evolved (interested readers can take a look at my updated associated components list.) While my SCD-777ES has remained constant, I’ve gone through different speakers, amplifiers, digitaltoanalog converters and more. I sincerely believe, having lived with the AirSine for about a year or more, and through multiple associated component changes, that its $699 price tag is more than justified. The AirSine isn’t just another step in the upgrade merry-go-round, it’s a destination. And that’s precisely why it’s my Most Wanted Component. Eujin Hong"
So, turns out Eujin got a freebee. Otherwise known as payola. Call me cynical, but could this POSSIBLY have affected his sensitive ears?
What happens with reviewers is they get in a vicious circle of moving through a pile of components randomly mixed with old going, new coming, tired capricious psychic and a lot of greedy opportunism. Its just PR and marketing. The bad thing is that they get conditioned to actually believe that the more you listen to many stuff gives you a better ear, When actually turns ears to biscuits. But that is industry. Has nothing to do with sanity, logic, or clean purposes.
Panicos, you are missing the point. If people can hear it, it can be documented graphically, thus can be viewed. I'm talking about the evidence that can be presented on internet.Panicos K said:
So you or those who are on the same boat heard a difference by "upgrading" power cord of your audio equipment, the difference certainly can be measured and presented to support the claim. If you know of sound difference that people can hear but not measurable by today's equipment, please tell me some.
All I can say is:
My amp (Rotel Michi 200 wpc) had an IEC inlet and a computer power cord 18 awg.
I changed it to a 10 awg stranded cord with Marinco HG Connectors. It was not expensive. I bought it from a Proprieter who does this and has a phenominal reputation.
Back and forth I noticed the sound was different. The bass was where I noticed the most. Smoother I would say like less pulsing. The other real standout was the drums. Each tom suddenly had its own voice rather than being indistinctly muddled together. Other more subtle things were noticeable but not so obvious as what I already said. No other variables in the equation either.
I changed the chord back and forth, alone, I knew which was which (not blind) but at $70, I was not that invested that it had to sound better like some of the ridiculous (up to thousands) prices I see out there. I can't imagine they could justify the price. My cord got me 90% or maybe higher for so much less.
To me it helps quite a bit but don't be foolish. Go for premium value. Probably less expensive if you do it yerself! LOL
But don't forget, the key is balance here, end to end! Meaning bring up the weakest point first and least expensive mods too. Don't over do one point and ignore another bottle neck!
Good luck and I hope this helps!
This is just my experience and opinion so what you do with it is up to you!
I don't care if this can or can't be measured. I trust my ears. If I can listen to two different systems and discerne what I like and don't like about each and upgrade my system making it better using those same ears, why shouldn't I trust them now? Someone has an opportunity to invent new measurements and equipment. Run with that instead of arguing about this. You will be a lot more satisfied! Good luck with all your challenges! We all need that and the new measurements and equipment so we can move on!
Regards//Keith
My amp (Rotel Michi 200 wpc) had an IEC inlet and a computer power cord 18 awg.
I changed it to a 10 awg stranded cord with Marinco HG Connectors. It was not expensive. I bought it from a Proprieter who does this and has a phenominal reputation.
Back and forth I noticed the sound was different. The bass was where I noticed the most. Smoother I would say like less pulsing. The other real standout was the drums. Each tom suddenly had its own voice rather than being indistinctly muddled together. Other more subtle things were noticeable but not so obvious as what I already said. No other variables in the equation either.
I changed the chord back and forth, alone, I knew which was which (not blind) but at $70, I was not that invested that it had to sound better like some of the ridiculous (up to thousands) prices I see out there. I can't imagine they could justify the price. My cord got me 90% or maybe higher for so much less.
To me it helps quite a bit but don't be foolish. Go for premium value. Probably less expensive if you do it yerself! LOL
But don't forget, the key is balance here, end to end! Meaning bring up the weakest point first and least expensive mods too. Don't over do one point and ignore another bottle neck!
Good luck and I hope this helps!
This is just my experience and opinion so what you do with it is up to you!
I don't care if this can or can't be measured. I trust my ears. If I can listen to two different systems and discerne what I like and don't like about each and upgrade my system making it better using those same ears, why shouldn't I trust them now? Someone has an opportunity to invent new measurements and equipment. Run with that instead of arguing about this. You will be a lot more satisfied! Good luck with all your challenges! We all need that and the new measurements and equipment so we can move on!
Regards//Keith
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