Rob M said:
I don't see how you get from the article that blind tests are somehow unnatural.
What it seems to say is that in the blind tests, the decisions were made based only on sensory input, whereas in the non-blind tests, our higher level thought processes effectively overrorde the sensory input.
If one were to extrapolate the results of this test to that of audio (which admittedly is making some rather broad assumptions) it would simply reinforce what's been said for quite some time now; that biases which have nothing to do with the actual sound of a thing can alter our perceptions of it in ways which have nothing to do with actual sensory input.
Of course the article, while enlightening, is somewhat limited in that it deals with preference as opposed to detection of differences.
Absolutely. Which is why I could care less how one goes about achieving their pleasure when listening to music. The end result is no less real. And if you're a hedonist like me, all that matters is the end result.
Now, when people make testable, objective claims, that's another matter.
se
Rob M said:
Ah, ok. In other words, we're subjective, emotional beings rather than cold, emotionless Vulcans?
Anyway, I think the most pertinent part of the article is this:
Montague was impressed: he had demonstrated, with a fair degree of neuroscientific precision, the special power of Coke's brand to override our taste buds.
se
PaleRider:
Or put another way, if your cable is 2m long it might total around 1-5% of the total copper conductor from your house's distribution board to your hi-fi. And possibly 0.1-1% relative to your closest transformer which I assure you is NOT wound with Audio Note silver strand. Plain logic dictates that nothing, absolutely bugger-all, zero, zip squat could happen in those two metres to improve what went before. Or after it, for that matter - take a peek inside a few amps and witness the plain-Jane PVC el-cheapo-deluxo hook-up wire.
So let's be optimistic and give your solid-core wunderkind power-cable a 25% improvement over the common type. This creates a whopping maximum improvement margin of 1.25% relative to your DB board (25%x5%). Assuming the best, do you think you could hear 1.25% improvement even if it existed... But let's remember that transformer down the street. Now your sonic miracle might measure only 0.00025% using extremely optimistic assumptions. I don't even think God could hear that difference...
So, I ask with tears in my baby blues: "How, Paleface...?" How is this possible?
The only way forward is to buy that GE F7 gas turbine EE_Mark spoke of (I hear they're on special...), install it in your back yard, get AN to wind you a custom silver step-down tranny and wire it to your hi-fi socket with 12G silver solid-core. Also to truly avoid any weak links you will need to rebuild your amplifier using silver wire and gold-foil PCB.
Seriously though, I think a simple double blind test with 2 cables will easily prove this folly to you.
And pray tell, exactly what is it that solid-core can accomplish at 50-60Hz that would improve the supply flowing out of the rigid multistrand in the wall??
Or put another way, if your cable is 2m long it might total around 1-5% of the total copper conductor from your house's distribution board to your hi-fi. And possibly 0.1-1% relative to your closest transformer which I assure you is NOT wound with Audio Note silver strand. Plain logic dictates that nothing, absolutely bugger-all, zero, zip squat could happen in those two metres to improve what went before. Or after it, for that matter - take a peek inside a few amps and witness the plain-Jane PVC el-cheapo-deluxo hook-up wire.
So let's be optimistic and give your solid-core wunderkind power-cable a 25% improvement over the common type. This creates a whopping maximum improvement margin of 1.25% relative to your DB board (25%x5%). Assuming the best, do you think you could hear 1.25% improvement even if it existed... But let's remember that transformer down the street. Now your sonic miracle might measure only 0.00025% using extremely optimistic assumptions. I don't even think God could hear that difference...
So, I ask with tears in my baby blues: "How, Paleface...?" How is this possible?
The only way forward is to buy that GE F7 gas turbine EE_Mark spoke of (I hear they're on special...), install it in your back yard, get AN to wind you a custom silver step-down tranny and wire it to your hi-fi socket with 12G silver solid-core. Also to truly avoid any weak links you will need to rebuild your amplifier using silver wire and gold-foil PCB.
Seriously though, I think a simple double blind test with 2 cables will easily prove this folly to you.
DrG said:
who are you to say that we have to rely on plain old logic?
Perception is reality. If we perceive a difference exists, that difference exists. Period. How much money we wasted in the way is irrelevent.
DrG said:
The newer, more powerful and cleaner burning F9 turbine is the way to go. and I can arrange some employee discount for the forum is anyone is interested. Better yet, I can get some used ones for cheap.
DrG said:
science is boring. and proving things out with facts is just way too hard. I would rather prefer making baseless claims.
DrG,
I don't really think that power cord creates improvements to all the existing wires coming from your nearest power plant.
What I think, it creates changes (even if it's 20cm long). Some perceive those changes as improvements, but this is not always the case. But definitely, changes are there. As much as someone can hear an interconnect, the same goes for wire and configuration of power cord.
I don't really think that power cord creates improvements to all the existing wires coming from your nearest power plant.
What I think, it creates changes (even if it's 20cm long). Some perceive those changes as improvements, but this is not always the case. But definitely, changes are there. As much as someone can hear an interconnect, the same goes for wire and configuration of power cord.
Its mostly a PVC insulator with a Nylon (polymide) outer jacket for mechanical toughness. It strips ok with a standard set of stripers, not so good if your trying to gorilla it off with lineman’s pliers.
I’ll abstain on the issue of weather its good for a power cord, but will admit that Ive long been curious about trying it for speaker cable. It is however still very stiff. I think stranded # 12 has about 8 strands.
I’ll abstain on the issue of weather its good for a power cord, but will admit that Ive long been curious about trying it for speaker cable. It is however still very stiff. I think stranded # 12 has about 8 strands.
Break in of wire
As much as I'd love to take credit for the GE F7 gas turbine idea it was Millwood's idea, not mine. I merely gave some detailed information on breaking in the wire coming from the GE F7. But I purposely left out the information on what atmospheric pressure, atmospheric gas mixture, and humidity the test must be run at. Without that information you will not get good sound from the power cord; there will be a 0.0000000l db dip in the ever-so-critical 1067.2 Hz. to 1067.25 Hz. band.
DrG said:
As much as I'd love to take credit for the GE F7 gas turbine idea it was Millwood's idea, not mine. I merely gave some detailed information on breaking in the wire coming from the GE F7. But I purposely left out the information on what atmospheric pressure, atmospheric gas mixture, and humidity the test must be run at. Without that information you will not get good sound from the power cord; there will be a 0.0000000l db dip in the ever-so-critical 1067.2 Hz. to 1067.25 Hz. band.
Space Transmissions
I'll try to find out what kind of power cords the Sapce Shuttle uses between Earth and space. I'll let you know if I find out. I can only assume whatever cords they are using weren't broken in properly.
NEWS FLASH: Some one just told me the audio is actually beemed down from space through radiation belts. I'll try and verify this and come back with an answer.
Not to change the subject, but are Belgian Ales the best in the world, or what?
I'll try to find out what kind of power cords the Sapce Shuttle uses between Earth and space. I'll let you know if I find out. I can only assume whatever cords they are using weren't broken in properly.
NEWS FLASH: Some one just told me the audio is actually beemed down from space through radiation belts. I'll try and verify this and come back with an answer.
Not to change the subject, but are Belgian Ales the best in the world, or what?
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