Ok. This is what I was wondering.
And this. Thanks.
Yeah, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure 20-30 Keystones would have similar effect that everyones experiencing with these 20-30 PK cabs...
The thread title was a simple oversight on my part and I couldn't change the title after realizing the mistake...
They would have similar SPL output, but would only use 50% of the power the PK subs use doing it.
The U2 360 tour used 24) Clair Brothers B218 subs, and 72) S4 subs powered with upwards of a million watts just for the subs, makes the "100,000 watts of Bone Crushing Sound System Power" on the Excision Execution Tour look like a ghetto blaster by comparison.
Power demands for big LF can really add up, an old friend invited me out to a big touring show (tiny compared to the U2 360 tour) he was production managing, that night the sound system blew a 400 amp three phase service !
The sound guys blamed the light guys (who had a separate 600 amp three phase service) for the power outage because a 30 amp projector was plugged into the sound power distribution
.Art
They would have similar SPL output, but would only use 50% of the power the PK subs use doing it.
The U2 360 tour used 24) Clair Brothers B218 subs, and 72) S4 subs powered with upwards of a million watts just for the subs, makes the "100,000 watts of Bone Crushing Sound System Power" on the Excision Execution Tour look like a ghetto blaster by comparison.
Power demands for big LF can really add up, an old friend invited me out to a big touring show (tiny compared to the U2 360 tour) he was production managing, that night the sound system blew a 400 amp three phase service !
The sound guys blamed the light guys (who had a separate 600 amp three phase service) for the power outage because a 30 amp projector was plugged into the sound power distribution
Art
leave it to the vidiots to not ask where to plug in video. still blowing 400 amp service is pretty impressive and a real pain in the ***, hope engineering was onsite with extra fuses haha. what show was that if we are allowed to ask art?
Can you clarify that. I thought sine wave had 3dB peak to average power while pink noise had 6dB.
The average power during time stays the same. While the peak voltage and power of the pink noise signal is higher.
It does raise the question how the AES rating (tested with pink noise) is only 3dB below peak power (on paper) while the signal peak itself is 3dB above it during that test.
Although it is stated as 3dB above AES (calculated), but doesn't that just make it a number on a paper with no real meaning?
Minimize power compression and risk of damage during test still applies though.
Regular pink noise has a crest factor of 12 dB, the AES pink noise is compressed to a crest factor of 6 dB, a sine wave has only 3 dB crest factor.
The average power compared to peak is double for the sine wave over the AES rating.
I don't understand your question.
Art
Perhaps I understood you wrong, but I thought you said that that a sine wave into a driver produces more power than the pink noise used in AES testing. Even though the RMS of them are the same.
Or that the AES rating is false as the driver can not take the rated power when feeding it sine waves.
Or did you mean peak amplitude being the same for both signals?
That's what I didn't understand from your quote.
Or that the AES rating is false as the driver can not take the rated power when feeding it sine waves.
Or did you mean peak amplitude being the same for both signals?
That's what I didn't understand from your quote.
AES testing uses a compressed pink noise source with only 6 dB crest factor peak to peak, the average power would only be half as much as a sine wave signal of the same peak to peak voltage since it's crest factor is 3 dB peak to peak.
Simply put, 1000 watts AES equals the same average power of a 500 watt "RMS" sine wave.
And a sine wave signal of 1000 watts would only have half the average power of a square wave signal of 1000 watts, as the square wave has 0 dB crest factor.
Since music generally has at least 12 dB crest factor, the AES rating is still fairly conservative.
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My head is still contradicting me a little.
Mainly this part from AES spec "Power shall be determined as the square of applied rms voltage, as measured with a “true rms” voltmeter, divided by Zmin."
From AES2-1984 (r2003):
It does to me sound like that power is actually delivered to the driver (or would if it was a pure resistance). With that in the back of my head I was confused by your earlier statement.
BTW have you had any experience with 15TBW100? Or the *new* FW series?
Mainly this part from AES spec "Power shall be determined as the square of applied rms voltage, as measured with a “true rms” voltmeter, divided by Zmin."
From AES2-1984 (r2003):
It does to me sound like that power is actually delivered to the driver (or would if it was a pure resistance). With that in the back of my head I was confused by your earlier statement.
BTW have you had any experience with 15TBW100? Or the *new* FW series?
No personal experience with either.
The BC15TBW100 is used in the DSL TH-115, and all the reports I read are positive.
Here's some speaker pr0n, courtesy of PK Sound and the Full Flex Tour
Got subs?
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Got subs?
They would have similar SPL output, but would only use 50% of the power the PK subs use doing it.
The U2 360 tour used 24) Clair Brothers B218 subs, and 72) S4 subs powered with upwards of a million watts just for the subs, makes the "100,000 watts of Bone Crushing Sound System Power" on the Excision Execution Tour look like a ghetto blaster by comparison.
Power demands for big LF can really add up, an old friend invited me out to a big touring show (tiny compared to the U2 360 tour) he was production managing, that night the sound system blew a 400 amp three phase service !
The sound guys blamed the light guys (who had a separate 600 amp three phase service) for the power outage because a 30 amp projector was plugged into the sound power distribution
Art
Tool and U2 play stadiums.
Excision plays nightclubs.
The experience is completely different.
I've been going to shows for a looooong time, there aren't many 42 year olds that go to EDM shows. And 2011 was the first year I ever heard a venue filed with so much bass that the walls flexed and it was hard to breathe.
Way fun
I was at a concert with PK sound this weekend, the bass made a significant portion of the ceiling fall into the crowd. My friend and I were hit, but not bad. The person behind us was almost unconscious, we had to get him out of the crowd. They kept the show going for a while and more and more of the ceiling was falling. My friend and I after helping the person who was hit were the first to leave.
Ugh, this is seriously what I'm worried about - that this type of bass is something that won't be around for long, because the owners of the buildings are going to wise up. And once that happens, they'll probably set SPL and frequency limits for shows. Naturally, they'll probably overdo it. I'd never considered someone would actually get hurt! Good to hear you're OK.
Was this the Excision show in Boise?
no, this was Datsik in Chicago. My friend and I are still shaken up from this.
we were literally right under that: (middle of the video)
Ceiling Collapses on Concertgoers During Chicago Performance | NBC Chicago
we were literally right under that: (middle of the video)
Ceiling Collapses on Concertgoers During Chicago Performance | NBC Chicago
When Supertramp brought a Martin rig in to a theater in St. Paul around 1978, plaster fell from the ceiling during sound check of the kick drum.
Structural damage from bass is not a new thing, there are many venues (more in Europe than the US) that have already imposed sound restrictions.
this seems similar to planning a building to withstand earth quakes, the materials used have to be able to flex and give for bass, the more rigid it is the less likely its going to withstand thousands of watts of bass reverberating through the material..
any idea what the ceiling was made of? thats a seriously scary scenario that could hurt alot of people..
I remember stories of old warehouse raves where they were shaking insulation (probably nasty insulation at that) free with all the bass, but this is the first i've heard of major ceiling chunks falling and hurting people. wow.
any idea what the ceiling was made of? thats a seriously scary scenario that could hurt alot of people..
I remember stories of old warehouse raves where they were shaking insulation (probably nasty insulation at that) free with all the bass, but this is the first i've heard of major ceiling chunks falling and hurting people. wow.
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