jin5 said:
???? $70 is not expensive to pay someone else, who owes you nothing, to supply the material, to use their tools, their electricity, inhale the MDF dust, run the risk of personal injury, clean up the mess, dispose of the waste, package it, bring to the post office to mail to you where you sit (NOT DIYing) impatiently waiting for it to arrive, complaining about the cost.
Wow.
Minor progress
The backs are glued onto both enclosures. Here's the one that's out of the clamps:
I started filling in the screwholes from the left cabinet with bondo. (I've decided the cabinet with the bulk of the errors is the left one.) I need to make another pass at it - like nearly all other tasks involving the hand and brain, I find this one difficult.
I have both overhang & underhang in the enclosures. I'm hoping to fix this overhang with a trim bit on my router...
... so I made a pair of test jigs:
I'll be practicing on these soon.
Is there any remedy for underhang besides sanding until my arms fall off?
PowerPoint to-do:
- Bondo a bit more
- Trim overhang with flush bit on router
- Sand until my armpits bleed
The backs are glued onto both enclosures. Here's the one that's out of the clamps:
I started filling in the screwholes from the left cabinet with bondo. (I've decided the cabinet with the bulk of the errors is the left one.) I need to make another pass at it - like nearly all other tasks involving the hand and brain, I find this one difficult.
I have both overhang & underhang in the enclosures. I'm hoping to fix this overhang with a trim bit on my router...
... so I made a pair of test jigs:
I'll be practicing on these soon.
Is there any remedy for underhang besides sanding until my arms fall off?
PowerPoint to-do:
- Bondo a bit more
- Trim overhang with flush bit on router
- Sand until my armpits bleed
Veneering perpendicular round-over edges is quite possible. I've done it successfully more then a few times. It's definitely not a job for a beginner. Vacuum press is a necessity. I have seen this work on 1810th German furniture but I've never attempted doing this work entirely by hand. Even in the vacuum bag, veneer has to be massaged in to the radius with a block. Softening of the veneer is another issue for this particular application. Can't be too moist or too dry.
$75 is dirt cheap.
I am an expert in the veneering, if you doing yellow glue or formaldehyde with raw veneer, but if it's paperbacked with contact cement, I guess John will give you a hint.
$75 is dirt cheap.
I am an expert in the veneering, if you doing yellow glue or formaldehyde with raw veneer, but if it's paperbacked with contact cement, I guess John will give you a hint.
Re: Re: Roundover on front done
I should have phrased that: "It's next to impossible to veneer round overs that go both ways and make it look good.
Veneer is meant to look like real wood, and a real piece of wood has end grain - veneer does not. You either wind up with what looks like a mitered trim corner or what's shown in the picture below.
Hey Roman, speaking of paperbacked veneer, guess who just bought some on Ebay?
Hint: It wasn't this John.
MJL21193 said:
R-Carpenter said:
I should have phrased that: "It's next to impossible to veneer round overs that go both ways and make it look good.
Veneer is meant to look like real wood, and a real piece of wood has end grain - veneer does not. You either wind up with what looks like a mitered trim corner or what's shown in the picture below.
Hey Roman, speaking of paperbacked veneer, guess who just bought some on Ebay?
Hint: It wasn't this John.
Attachments
It's not going to look spotless with linear veneer but it looks great with Birds Eye Maple or Amboynia veneer.
Every method has its purpose.
I am not going to spend time and make a specific sample now, but next time I will take some pictures.
Don't really care who got what and where. People do silly things all the time. Don't you agree John?
BTW you mismatched the grain on the joint on your picture very nicely. If you take a 45* cut and have a good glue line, lines will actually flow in to each other, mister artist.
Every method has its purpose.
I am not going to spend time and make a specific sample now, but next time I will take some pictures.
Don't really care who got what and where. People do silly things all the time. Don't you agree John?
BTW you mismatched the grain on the joint on your picture very nicely. If you take a 45* cut and have a good glue line, lines will actually flow in to each other, mister artist.
Re: Minor progress
I've encountered this problem myself. I've made a few cabinets and parts for people (friends, or doing it for someone because I'd learn new techniques) and I just charge for the materials and wear & tear on tools.
If I were to charge even a low fee for my time it would make the cost of one-off items way too high. It's one of the reasons the 'little guy' struggles against the mass made factory stuff - it's just too expensive to make things in small runs.
I know of a UK based DIY speaker company that has someone with CNC gear cutting MDF cabinets for them (for customers that don't want to make the boxes themselves). The rough figures equate to around 400USD for a pair, of which I reckon they'll have spent 50USD on MDF alone. I can't think they make much money when you take into account the low volume, and costs of staff, tooling, power, taxes etc.
One thing I was going to mention (but forgot) was that it's usually a good idea to oversize all parts you can, and ensure you get overhang once glued. With a trimming bit you obviously then get a really accurate edge. Cutting parts 'exactly' as they should be means that it's really hard to ever get things perfect. I do this even with CNC cut boxes I make.
MJL21193 said:
I've encountered this problem myself. I've made a few cabinets and parts for people (friends, or doing it for someone because I'd learn new techniques) and I just charge for the materials and wear & tear on tools.
If I were to charge even a low fee for my time it would make the cost of one-off items way too high. It's one of the reasons the 'little guy' struggles against the mass made factory stuff - it's just too expensive to make things in small runs.
I know of a UK based DIY speaker company that has someone with CNC gear cutting MDF cabinets for them (for customers that don't want to make the boxes themselves). The rough figures equate to around 400USD for a pair, of which I reckon they'll have spent 50USD on MDF alone. I can't think they make much money when you take into account the low volume, and costs of staff, tooling, power, taxes etc.
StewLG said:
One thing I was going to mention (but forgot) was that it's usually a good idea to oversize all parts you can, and ensure you get overhang once glued. With a trimming bit you obviously then get a really accurate edge. Cutting parts 'exactly' as they should be means that it's really hard to ever get things perfect. I do this even with CNC cut boxes I make.
Re: Re: Minor progress
At the time I was at my friends house making the cuts on his table saw (I don't own one), I wasn't even clear on what a router was, and I definitely didn't know what a flush trim bit was or how it worked.
But I can now see why this technique would work so well, and I now own a router and a trim bit. If there's another project in my future (and there likely will be), I'll be trying to do it this way.
At the time I was at my friends house making the cuts on his table saw (I don't own one), I wasn't even clear on what a router was, and I definitely didn't know what a flush trim bit was or how it worked.
But I can now see why this technique would work so well, and I now own a router and a trim bit. If there's another project in my future (and there likely will be), I'll be trying to do it this way.
PDX/SR-71's
Stew-
Well, hello from PDX, OR !! Sounds like you might know the place a
little bit. I also am an amateur speaker builder from the Portland
area. Your thread caught my eye because of that & also because
you're building the very speaker I'm interested in also. I've only built
2 pairs of speakers in the last twenty years, a small two way years
ago , & recently an MTM (SE-2/Shamrock Audio), so my experience is
not vast.
The SE-2's are fine speakers but I"m ready to try something else. If
you're at all interested & comfortable doing so, I"d love to listen to
your SR-71's when done, perhaps even an A/B comparison with the
SE-2's ??. Anyway, that's down the road. Will follow your progress
with interest. With Zaph's reputation, doesn't seem you can go
wrong. Did the crossovers come pre-assembled from Madisound ?
Thanks for your response-
Stew-
Well, hello from PDX, OR !! Sounds like you might know the place a
little bit. I also am an amateur speaker builder from the Portland
area. Your thread caught my eye because of that & also because
you're building the very speaker I'm interested in also. I've only built
2 pairs of speakers in the last twenty years, a small two way years
ago , & recently an MTM (SE-2/Shamrock Audio), so my experience is
not vast.
The SE-2's are fine speakers but I"m ready to try something else. If
you're at all interested & comfortable doing so, I"d love to listen to
your SR-71's when done, perhaps even an A/B comparison with the
SE-2's ??. Anyway, that's down the road. Will follow your progress
with interest. With Zaph's reputation, doesn't seem you can go
wrong. Did the crossovers come pre-assembled from Madisound ?
Thanks for your response-
Re: PDX/SR-71's
You're welcome to have a listen when that solemn day comes. Be warned that, assuming I finish them acceptably, the SR71s will be the single most expensive piece of audio equipment I own, so if you need gobs of Class A monoblock power or the like I can't help you. (And no, I don't know quite what I'm talking about when it comes to amps or anything beyond consumer mid-fi.)
I'm just looking forward to putting the SR-71s up against my $99 (I exaggerate, but not much) Onkyo HTIB speakers.
Yes, they did, which surprised me and vaguely disappointed me. I was girding myself for the geek macho of soldering, since I can actually do that, unlike cut wood, measure, or not mix Bondo in your basement where the furnace is blowing solvent-soaked air throughout your entire house making your wife call you on the cell phone and ask you Are you making a bomb or something because my mom is already on the do-not-fly list and we have enough problems.
DavidLR said:
You're welcome to have a listen when that solemn day comes. Be warned that, assuming I finish them acceptably, the SR71s will be the single most expensive piece of audio equipment I own, so if you need gobs of Class A monoblock power or the like I can't help you. (And no, I don't know quite what I'm talking about when it comes to amps or anything beyond consumer mid-fi.)
I'm just looking forward to putting the SR-71s up against my $99 (I exaggerate, but not much) Onkyo HTIB speakers.
Yes, they did, which surprised me and vaguely disappointed me. I was girding myself for the geek macho of soldering, since I can actually do that, unlike cut wood, measure, or not mix Bondo in your basement where the furnace is blowing solvent-soaked air throughout your entire house making your wife call you on the cell phone and ask you Are you making a bomb or something because my mom is already on the do-not-fly list and we have enough problems.
chubby chaser said:
While I did do the initial botched screw job in my basement, all other dust-producing has been done in my garage, wearing a respirator. Since the garage is detached, and this is Portland in April (43 degrees F and raining), I try to do as much as I can in the basement, which is a bit warmer and a lot drier. You know, safe things like huffing Bondo.
Re: Minor progress
Hi,
Depending on the tools you have. A belt sander with a 60-80 grit belt will quickly cut though MDF. It can make for a not so flat surface though, if you're not careful. Barring that, a small hand plane with a very sharp blade will make life easier, then hand sand (or better yet random orbit sander) it smooth.
Another option, if the under hang is small is to fill it with Bondo and sand this flush.
Good work and good humour. I appreciate both.
You doing well
StewLG said:
Hi,
Depending on the tools you have. A belt sander with a 60-80 grit belt will quickly cut though MDF. It can make for a not so flat surface though, if you're not careful. Barring that, a small hand plane with a very sharp blade will make life easier, then hand sand (or better yet random orbit sander) it smooth.
Another option, if the under hang is small is to fill it with Bondo and sand this flush.
Good work and good humour. I appreciate both.
You doing well
Is this Stew the speaker builder or is it Woody Allen trying out a new script on the speaker community!!?? Why don't you start a humor forum on this site ??
Don't worry, my own equipment is older, quite modest, but good stuff from what I"ve gathered online. Adcom GFA-535 for the amp, NAD 1130 for the preamp, both of which are considered "musical" & high end "bargains", but I purchased used, years ago. Works for me !
Got to admit, I've never considered using Bondo during speaker construction. These speakers on wheels or something ?
Don't worry, my own equipment is older, quite modest, but good stuff from what I"ve gathered online. Adcom GFA-535 for the amp, NAD 1130 for the preamp, both of which are considered "musical" & high end "bargains", but I purchased used, years ago. Works for me !
Got to admit, I've never considered using Bondo during speaker construction. These speakers on wheels or something ?
Re: Minor progress
I still think you should use conventional sand-paper. Armpit hair can be a good abrasive depending on your family's genetics and probably very environmentally friendly but the gain is not worth the effort... and no one wants to put in all that work so that people can just walk by and say to you: "your speakers stink!"
StewLG said:
I still think you should use conventional sand-paper. Armpit hair can be a good abrasive depending on your family's genetics and probably very environmentally friendly but the gain is not worth the effort... and no one wants to put in all that work so that people can just walk by and say to you: "your speakers stink!"
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