He has some amazing sims. I have been debating on which design to build. I liked the Resp post he made on the dual 12pe. BUT I didnt know that his cut sheet was for a different hornresp sim.
So my goals are a midbass monster cabinet and no bigger than the Manta Ray. I have seen some other designs out there and they are much smaller and require more expensive drivers. So I will wait to hear more.
If not I will have to save a lot more coins for the other designs.
So my goals are a midbass monster cabinet and no bigger than the Manta Ray. I have seen some other designs out there and they are much smaller and require more expensive drivers. So I will wait to hear more.
If not I will have to save a lot more coins for the other designs.
I'm a big fan of your PPSL concept, djk.
(I've built a scaled down(to 12 inch size) LaScala with your ported mod and four 8 inchers on the PPSL plenum - no measurements, but sounds quite nice
) I know this is OT, but can you please elaborate on eliminating the plenum in the Belle/LaScala when the sketch is ready?
Thanks!
Zwiller,
Assuming you are still thinking in terms of mid-bass, dispersion is a very important aspect of the design. Assuming the horn with two flat sides is narrow compared to the four flare side horn, it will loose pattern control (go omni) at a higher frequency than the wider horn, generally known as "pattern flip".
Art
I don't know what you mean by "typical", horns can be made in almost any aspect ratio or flare rate and nominal dispersion.
DSL makes a variety of Synergy horns, some using co-ax 8" and co-ax 12". The co-ax units have more peaked response than the units they make with offset driver mid range cones. Co-ax drivers allow two compromises:
1) Use the cone as an extension of the HF horn flare.
2) Extend the HF horn in front of the mid cone.
Both compromises result in a variety of problems.
Using offset mid drivers sharing the same horn with the HF allows for less compromises in the horn design, and better pattern control down to a lower frequency, as well as the use of less expensive components.
Art
Not sure what happened to DJK.?
Zwiller what are you planning on building?
I am wanting a dual 12" cabinet with as much slam as I can get out of it. I might have to try and design my own. Not sure which high horn I will use yet. One option I got to her the other day and that was quite nice. BU The CD for that is about 1000dollars for me per speaker. SO that puts everything on hold if I go that route.
I would like to go with a dual 12" setup but will probably have to use a smaller horn like the 18 Sound 1496 or 1464. Then add in a CD for about 300 each and that will have to do.
But ya 2 way monster for me either way.
Zwiller what are you planning on building?
I am wanting a dual 12" cabinet with as much slam as I can get out of it. I might have to try and design my own. Not sure which high horn I will use yet. One option I got to her the other day and that was quite nice. BU The CD for that is about 1000dollars for me per speaker. SO that puts everything on hold if I go that route.
I would like to go with a dual 12" setup but will probably have to use a smaller horn like the 18 Sound 1496 or 1464. Then add in a CD for about 300 each and that will have to do.
But ya 2 way monster for me either way.
Only problem with that one is that the Hornresp posted was for a different design. The drawing was for a non-posted design.
I was also curious if a horn could be mounted anywhere on the mouth of the posted drawing plans?
Something like a 1496 horn. But dont know where or if that is a good idea at all. There is always the option for a larger horn such as the SEOS 18 also.
40" tall x 30" wide is nothing to laugh at. SO I am trying to see if I can not have another box on top for the highs. All in one box would be better.
I was also curious if a horn could be mounted anywhere on the mouth of the posted drawing plans?
Something like a 1496 horn. But dont know where or if that is a good idea at all. There is always the option for a larger horn such as the SEOS 18 also.
40" tall x 30" wide is nothing to laugh at. SO I am trying to see if I can not have another box on top for the highs. All in one box would be better.
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Using offset mid drivers sharing the same horn with the HF allows for less compromises in the horn design, and better pattern control down to a lower frequency because a single horn can be much larger without interfering with a separate HF horn.
The smoother response (compared to co-ax drivers) results from less compromised horn design.
I tell you what, I am beginning to regress here... Just reading the FLH thread, I realize I waaaaay out of my league. I probably should buy some Peavey tops and be done with it...
I really want to take the HS12, make it square (larger), add to 2 more flares, use a coaxial 12 and put a 1" port on each flare. It would resemble a synergy design in many ways (and look exactly like one too) but my sim of the design does not improve upon the HS12...
I would also be tempted to build the MantaRay and throw a B&C coaxial in the top. That said, I really want to build Art's Syntripp but it is still beyond my understand and reach: I do not understand it enough to build a half decent version with cheaper drivers.
I really want to take the HS12, make it square (larger), add to 2 more flares, use a coaxial 12 and put a 1" port on each flare. It would resemble a synergy design in many ways (and look exactly like one too) but my sim of the design does not improve upon the HS12...
I would also be tempted to build the MantaRay and throw a B&C coaxial in the top. That said, I really want to build Art's Syntripp but it is still beyond my understand and reach: I do not understand it enough to build a half decent version with cheaper drivers.
1) The Peavey cabinets with the Hughes quadratic throat sound good and are a good value, it would be difficult to put something together any cheaper that would sound as good.1) I probably should buy some Peavey tops and be done with it...
2)That said, I really want to build Art's Syntripp but it is still beyond my understand and reach: I do not understand it enough to build a half decent version with cheaper drivers.
2) The B&C 10" drivers used in the SynTripP are quite inexpensive considering their excursion potential and lightweight neo magnets. An inexpensive 1" exit driver could easily be substituted for the 1.4" exit driver with some loss of HF output potential, and the adapter to the horn could be made so a 3" diaphragm 1.4" driver could be retrofitted when funds are available. The cabinet is a difficult build, but most decent HF cabinets are, compared to subs.
DIY makes good sense for low frequency cabinets, the build time vs. costs saved for an equivalent output commercial cabinet can be substantial. For above 100 Hz, there are so many decent options available new or used for such low cost that unless you have the inclination to go for a specific goal not available commercially (my excuse for spending months of my life creating the SynTripP), it simply is not worth the effort and expense to attempt to DIY.
Art
The HF throat entrance on a Synergy or any other four sided horn is simply a round to square or rectangular adapter, it is not at all the hardest aspect of the design, though creating a smooth transition takes time.
I don't know of any commercially made adapters, horns or waveguides to make a round to rectangular conversion and still allow for the close spacing of the offset mid drivers required for optimum performance.
Attachments
"Not sure what happened to DJK.?"
No internet at home, new computer needs to be hooked up and different software loaded, limited time.
The plan and cut-list are for a straight horn I have been building since about 1980 for PA. It works well crossed at 12dB/Q=1 at 140hz~150hz, this gives a LR24 transfer function. On the top it likes 12dB/Q=1 at 900hz, this gives a LR24 transfer function.
The Hornresp input page is for a new design with one smooth 90° bend and should be better (once I get the time to sort it out).
No internet at home, new computer needs to be hooked up and different software loaded, limited time.
The plan and cut-list are for a straight horn I have been building since about 1980 for PA. It works well crossed at 12dB/Q=1 at 140hz~150hz, this gives a LR24 transfer function. On the top it likes 12dB/Q=1 at 900hz, this gives a LR24 transfer function.
The Hornresp input page is for a new design with one smooth 90° bend and should be better (once I get the time to sort it out).
This fits that bill:
https://soundforums.net/threads/11317-New-DIY-Mid-High
But requires a large diaphragm mid/high driver to "keep up".
LOL.
That was linked earlier in this thread. And the forum member who built that speaker lives not too far from me. I went and had a listen and its nice. I couldnt compare it against anything else so I can only go by my ears.
The only bad thing about that design is that it needs a $1000 BMS coax. BUT in saying that I do believe it can be made with a different CD. So while not sounding as good as the original I might just try that build.
Will have to look at pricing again. The CD I would use is not near as expensive as the BMS. 1000 vs 300 Will also have to look at the pricing on the 12's again. I know the PE32's cost me about 195 each.
BUT it IS still a very good option thanks.
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