@ Stefanoo
don't judge absolute quality only by price ;
of course that PL amps and FW amps aren't in same price range , but they are obviously different tools for different purposes ...... and definitely comparative by quality
I repeat - nobody is saying that 800 are bad spks ....... but you're drowning deeper and deeper in process of defending them , trying to belittle knowledge and experience of ppl discussing in thread
don't judge absolute quality only by price ;
of course that PL amps and FW amps aren't in same price range , but they are obviously different tools for different purposes ...... and definitely comparative by quality
I repeat - nobody is saying that 800 are bad spks ....... but you're drowning deeper and deeper in process of defending them , trying to belittle knowledge and experience of ppl discussing in thread
you are extremely wrong.
The Audi might be a mid-end design and an 800S more likely a F1 kind.
They don't adjust the frequency response because you are going to use it with a Radio Shack radio...please!!
That is a design choice obviously.
And no! you can't design Formula 1s just copying design projects here, because
1) the things I have seen around here (for the exception of one) is really mid class if not less
2) the majority of the people here (with due exceptions of few) are not that qualified and do it just as a hobby
3) those people usally do it on a side with little time, while companyies actually do it as a full time job, which believe me makes a HUGE difference
4) Usually companies have equipment and means to Reasearch and measure things, they outsource they have in general much more resources than a simple DIYer here
5) They get access to things you won't ever be able to get unless paying an exctruciating amount of money...example....custom made DACS for converter or even standards that will never be sold to you...or custom parts such as transformers and other things that have a high fix fee plus minimum order....Proper heatsinking
6) less important but still valid..99% of the DIY product just looks pretty mediocre....Estetic is not vital but it has its own importance
I think I made enought point
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No I got that as soon as yu posted it.
I am trying to help you understanding things. You make speakers and probably think they are the heavean of audio but truly you don't understand there are priorities that's all.
Zen,
not judjing things by price...but obviously the more expensive thing normally will be better.
Understand that nowdays no one will sell you something at a 10th of the market value (there are surely few excpetions to that though).
I don't agree quality is the same on those products, as a 200.5 will be likely more transparent than a 100.5 which will be more transparent and realistic than an F5.
I will try to pay attention more to the ppl discussion as you suggested
BTW again, this was a discussion about the X.5 and XA.5 can't believe it got this off thread...but...I don't care...I always like to engge audio discussion with other passionate people...so be it
you still dont' undestand the point!!!
You generalize too much. To evaluate one speaker or a system it has to be done on a controlled equipment.
Especiually if you are not "trained" or experience listener and don't have a hands on experience on a high end system by owning one, you are not going to miss a lot of things when auditioning something.
This is my two cents, update your system and then you can think of building something that you can call a "reference".
This is a rude comment that you can keep it for your self, I am trying to give you my personal opinion and perspective without being offensive to your nor to anybody, I would excpect the same treatment from you!
Stefanoo
Seriously forget about B&W and build Nelson's slot loaded open baffle, then you won't need a beast of an Amp to drive it.
Nelson's XA30.5, F5, AlephJ, M2, J2, or his SIT mono blocks will do the job quite nicely. You might also consider the F3
You will save big dollars and most likely have a setup that sounds better than a B&W/Pass-Monster-Amp setup.
The best speaker box is no speaker box
and speaking of embarassment....I am not the one who posted to forget about speaker I have NEVER LISTENED before!!!
So now you would undestand why I am questioning your background and degree of preparation here!?
Just something to reflect when next time making such an opening statement!
This is a rude comment that you can keep it for your self, I am trying to give you my personal opinion and perspective without being offensive to your nor to anybody, I would excpect the same treatment from you!
Appologies, but it is true what I say. Honestly
I don't feel embarrased because I have heard stuff by TAD which is another league to the BW800
EDIT: go back to the quote comparing lowther OB to BW, Wilson, blah blah, by reviewers on 6moons. Write them a letter and tell them they don't know what they are talking about
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Stefanoo,
You have revealed your hand. It is just as expected and as revealed in other thread. You assume cost trumps all, but it simply isn't true. You assume that FW amps are inferior to PL amps without understanding that same guy designed both and that one is probably the test bed for the other. Let me ask you something, did Nelson study the his new SiT devices in PL or FW format first? You seem to dismiss the speakers that are appreciated by the guy who designed your amp. Have you perfected Joachims MPP phono stage yet? The reason I told you to buy each amp and try it is because it is obvious that talking about expensive stuff is the most important thing to you. If it wasn't true, then you would heed the wisdom of someone who could rebuild all your equipment for a 1/10th of what you paid for it. Then again, you would be left to just listen. The only way to be safe is to buy Nelson's new Sit based mono blocks. I can assure you, he likes them better than the ones you speak of. Then again, you probably do not have the equipment to truly appreciate them anyway.
You have revealed your hand. It is just as expected and as revealed in other thread. You assume cost trumps all, but it simply isn't true. You assume that FW amps are inferior to PL amps without understanding that same guy designed both and that one is probably the test bed for the other. Let me ask you something, did Nelson study the his new SiT devices in PL or FW format first? You seem to dismiss the speakers that are appreciated by the guy who designed your amp. Have you perfected Joachims MPP phono stage yet? The reason I told you to buy each amp and try it is because it is obvious that talking about expensive stuff is the most important thing to you. If it wasn't true, then you would heed the wisdom of someone who could rebuild all your equipment for a 1/10th of what you paid for it. Then again, you would be left to just listen. The only way to be safe is to buy Nelson's new Sit based mono blocks. I can assure you, he likes them better than the ones you speak of. Then again, you probably do not have the equipment to truly appreciate them anyway.
It's not that they forgot the filter, it's that they chose not to use one. There's a big difference between the two. Quite obviously it was the right choice for you, but then you don't have the option to compare to an identical 800 with a more elaborate crossover.
In the white paper for the 800 series it's clear that B&W like the idea that the simpler the better, this is true if simple does the job. From the point of view of making a truly neutral speaker simple doesn't cut it. From the point of view of making a loudspeaker that sounds the way B&W wanted it to, I guess simple worked.
I have always understood the want/need to keep the number of series components in a crossover down, but I have never understood why a designer would dislike shunt components. Except of course to keep the price down, which may sound stupid, but the B&Ws are priced very competitively and simple is cheaper, or simple allows B&W to say we've only got 1 cap in the signal path and it's some ridiculously priced audiophoolery - read advertising/reviewer friendly - boutique part. Rather then use several, more cost effective parts.
Note again though, no one has said the B&W is a bad loudspeaker just that it has some flaws which mean that it wont appeal to everyone.
Lowther's also don't appeal to me either. The only measurements I've ever seen of one is a extremely ragged response caused by extreme cone break-up and also with very high levels of distortion.
That's right it was Troels who measured one...
Lowther EX3
Maybe that isn't representative of their other models, but it certainly doesn't inspire me into wanting to find out. I also find it suspect when a manufacturer doesn't provide frequency response measurements on their website, it's like they've got something to hide. Also they cost a bomb... but hey people like them, as does Nelson, some people just prefer different things. Nothing wrong with that.
ahahah...ok...here we go....!!
Let me clarify: I learn and learned even too much and not stop learning. I have a full time work as well...like I am assuming the majority here hopefully! I was offered to work for a very important audio company in Italy and I refused because I don't like to conform to commercial things with their limitation.
I have built a ton of things and have a lot of friend that are musicians like me and not...and truly when they come over my house and listen their mouths drop!!!!
And here again, you still think that people will just sell you things for cheap nowdays with this economy.
I have decided to build MPP phono and that was the thing I was referring to before if you caught it.
I will build that as a reference but I don't think it will acutally be a final TOP reference, even Joachim will tell you that it is beautiful design and I fully agree with him...it is a wonderful design and that it really gets close to his best commercial thing...but not quite the same!
This explains more than what I have to say in words to your comment.
BTW saying I don't have the equipment to try this out is a little bit too much I guess.
And no, you can't rebuild my 800S for 2 cents...I want to see you doing that...building an entire case with those finishing by a Diyer!
I am sure you and I can buy the same parts and copy the crossover change it imporve it whatever I believe on that...but trust me it won't be as cheap even buying raw parts....can't imagine building the all shape and everything for few bucks!!!
I don't know what you are talking aobut Sit based monoblocks...I will have to check that.
But don't get fooled...he studies them with the contribute of the people on the forum but then perfects and improves and takes it to another level on his commercial products:
Let me ask you: have you wonder why he publishes the FW schematics but not the commercial ones? I mean there must be a reson....just curiousity!!
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Stefano, it's like you've got something to prove here. Some one comes in bashing your loudspeakers and you have to jump in an defend them, as if them saying bad things somehow invalidates the reason why you dropped a lot of cash on a pair in the first place. Then like defending them makes you feel more comfortable at having spent all that money. No one cares. You auditioned them, you liked them, you bought them and are happy, you don't need to defend your purchase.
And I'm sure that their mouths did hit the floor. Most people have hifis where extreme cost cutting effects get impinged into the design process. Spend enough so that you start getting some less compromised designs and anyone is bound to be impressed.
I mean my DSP unit has more then about 500 euros in parts inside it, you'd be spending thousands to buy a commercial unit. Yes, quality does often cost a lot, but that doesn't mean everything expensive is automatically of good quality.
And I'm sure that their mouths did hit the floor. Most people have hifis where extreme cost cutting effects get impinged into the design process. Spend enough so that you start getting some less compromised designs and anyone is bound to be impressed.
I mean my DSP unit has more then about 500 euros in parts inside it, you'd be spending thousands to buy a commercial unit. Yes, quality does often cost a lot, but that doesn't mean everything expensive is automatically of good quality.
Relax stefanoo. The BW800 are fine.
What are you here for? Do you want to actually build something? Are you seeking advice?
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