Re: Re: More comments.
Plus probably makes it easier for the moderator as the board is more self moderating.
No problems..
Now that's old! Guess the longevity problems I've heard are unfounded in real applications. Tubes in a jet though? One wouldn't immediately think of a vacuum tube as something able to withstand high G's all the time.
Fair enough. I do work at Magnolia Hi-Fi, but never gone through intensive training, no do I intend to, as I'd be a horrible salesperson. I guess I have just gotten lucky with all my CD players.
Oops, my bad, I think it IS FTC I was referring to. It's indeed possible that things have changed, and manufacturers are no longer required to specify RMS power into a certain bandwidth into a certain impedance. I note that pretty much all manufacturers still do, but I too have noticed the sad trend to specify it at 6 ohms. As if anyone has 6 ohm speakers? I find particularly poor the fact that even Denon's top of the line $4,300 receiver only specifies that it can be used with speakers of 6-16 ohms. Sony does rate their ES products into four ohms for all five speakers, as does Yamaha (select models). And Yamaha to my knowledge is alone in specifying dynamic power into 8/6/4/2 ohms, among receivers.
I suppose after all this, I can only say that my speakers must present a pretty easy load, as little equipment has trouble driving them, some of it extremely low end. I am surprised the 200w Carver cube performed poorly however, as one of Bob's most touted features to his SS amplifiers was the fact that it should have no trouble at all with any speaker load. Yes, Bob does tend to embellish things a little, but this is the first time I've ever heard a bad thing about one of his amps.
With regards to the clipping issue, what's to stop someone from simply getting a SS amp (receiver, integrated) that has enough power that you never clip it? If you clip a 100w/channel amp, you certainly are going to clip a 10w/channel amp trying to obtain the same output level. You're not arguing that a clipping tube amp is going to sound better than a non-clipped SS amp, I take it? I understand the complaint about cheap receivers not living up to their power claims with real speakers, but let's just remove that from the picture for a moment. Let's say your SS amplification actually does live up to it's power claims with your speakers, for argument's sake.
Gotcha.
Aaron Gilbert
planet10 said:
Plus probably makes it easier for the moderator as the board is more self moderating.
No problems..planet10 said:
Now that's old! Guess the longevity problems I've heard are unfounded in real applications. Tubes in a jet though? One wouldn't immediately think of a vacuum tube as something able to withstand high G's all the time.
planet10 said:
Fair enough. I do work at Magnolia Hi-Fi, but never gone through intensive training, no do I intend to, as I'd be a horrible salesperson. I guess I have just gotten lucky with all my CD players.
planet10 said:
Oops, my bad, I think it IS FTC I was referring to. It's indeed possible that things have changed, and manufacturers are no longer required to specify RMS power into a certain bandwidth into a certain impedance. I note that pretty much all manufacturers still do, but I too have noticed the sad trend to specify it at 6 ohms. As if anyone has 6 ohm speakers? I find particularly poor the fact that even Denon's top of the line $4,300 receiver only specifies that it can be used with speakers of 6-16 ohms. Sony does rate their ES products into four ohms for all five speakers, as does Yamaha (select models). And Yamaha to my knowledge is alone in specifying dynamic power into 8/6/4/2 ohms, among receivers.
planet10 said:
I suppose after all this, I can only say that my speakers must present a pretty easy load, as little equipment has trouble driving them, some of it extremely low end. I am surprised the 200w Carver cube performed poorly however, as one of Bob's most touted features to his SS amplifiers was the fact that it should have no trouble at all with any speaker load. Yes, Bob does tend to embellish things a little, but this is the first time I've ever heard a bad thing about one of his amps.
With regards to the clipping issue, what's to stop someone from simply getting a SS amp (receiver, integrated) that has enough power that you never clip it? If you clip a 100w/channel amp, you certainly are going to clip a 10w/channel amp trying to obtain the same output level. You're not arguing that a clipping tube amp is going to sound better than a non-clipped SS amp, I take it? I understand the complaint about cheap receivers not living up to their power claims with real speakers, but let's just remove that from the picture for a moment. Let's say your SS amplification actually does live up to it's power claims with your speakers, for argument's sake.
planet10 said:
Gotcha.
Aaron Gilbert
Duane's 2-ways
Hopefully the author of these black beauties can reply soon, but if I recall correctly, the tweeter is also a SEAS, but which one?
With the delightful game of alphabet soup that the European manufacturers like to use to designate their drivers, and the fact that many model numbers include a reference to the metric size of the cone/dome - it can get pretty confusing. Doesn't just about everyone make a 17cm or 25mm something?
But if you're going to use metric, please stick with the same conventions - ie is 25 larger than 17 - not if it's a 25mm tweeter vs a 17cm (170mm) mid-bass it ain't.
The only thing that's worse is when an architect or designer (god bless their pointy little heads) use both feet/inches and inches on the same blueprint. You ever tried to read modern blueprints? Was that 126" or 12'6"? Only about 2 feet difference between the two!
In our millwork shop we are forced to use metric even for hand built products, because our CNC woodworking machinery is made in Europe and that's the only language the machines are programmed to understand. If you thought trying to get your "heritage" DOS or windows software to cooperate with the latest version of XP is exasperating - talk to the in-house programmers responsible for interfacing 3 or 4 versions of AutoCad with Product Planner, DrillMate, Aspan and Kermit - and that's just to get the files to the saw and CNC.
Sometimes it's actually faster to build a one-off piece by hand than to complete a waltz around the CAD-CAM dance floor.
I'd have slit my wrists years ago; fortunately I just have to run the accounts and payroll
Dave, save your breath - yes if all computers were Apples..., and if Sony hadn't dropped the ball on the Beta fiasco, we'd have had 20 years of superior video tape. (BTW kids, next time you see a portable newscamera on TV, check out the logo - betcha it doesn't include the letters VHS!)
ouch, that rather reads as a completely unrelated rant doesn't it?
who do I think I am, rick mercer?
thanks again for a great day, Al and Bob
'nite kids
Hopefully the author of these black beauties can reply soon, but if I recall correctly, the tweeter is also a SEAS, but which one?
With the delightful game of alphabet soup that the European manufacturers like to use to designate their drivers, and the fact that many model numbers include a reference to the metric size of the cone/dome - it can get pretty confusing. Doesn't just about everyone make a 17cm or 25mm something?
But if you're going to use metric, please stick with the same conventions - ie is 25 larger than 17 - not if it's a 25mm tweeter vs a 17cm (170mm) mid-bass it ain't.
The only thing that's worse is when an architect or designer (god bless their pointy little heads) use both feet/inches and inches on the same blueprint. You ever tried to read modern blueprints? Was that 126" or 12'6"? Only about 2 feet difference between the two!
In our millwork shop we are forced to use metric even for hand built products, because our CNC woodworking machinery is made in Europe and that's the only language the machines are programmed to understand. If you thought trying to get your "heritage" DOS or windows software to cooperate with the latest version of XP is exasperating - talk to the in-house programmers responsible for interfacing 3 or 4 versions of AutoCad with Product Planner, DrillMate, Aspan and Kermit - and that's just to get the files to the saw and CNC.
Sometimes it's actually faster to build a one-off piece by hand than to complete a waltz around the CAD-CAM dance floor.
I'd have slit my wrists years ago; fortunately I just have to run the accounts and payroll
Dave, save your breath - yes if all computers were Apples..., and if Sony hadn't dropped the ball on the Beta fiasco, we'd have had 20 years of superior video tape. (BTW kids, next time you see a portable newscamera on TV, check out the logo - betcha it doesn't include the letters VHS!)
ouch, that rather reads as a completely unrelated rant doesn't it?
who do I think I am, rick mercer?
thanks again for a great day, Al and Bob
'nite kids
Re: Re: More comments.
I seem to recall that as well "as long as he can hear the Canuks' game,(canajun hockey, eh) that all that matters"
So I guess that means that this is what we would call a secondary system. Since Al has to actually try to make a living in this game, he may not have the time to listen to or certainly to tweak the last delicious drop of sonic nirvana from his personal audio system.
As certifiable audio-maniacs, that's our job
Hey, have you heard about the latest tweaky capacitor? - kosher balogna and balsamic vinegar. No really; I was sceptical too, until I got this personal e-mail from Peter Belt extolling the virtues of his latest discovery.
"You'll hear inner details and peer into subtle layers of hitherto unplumbed dimensions of space/time with these little babies. Just don't unwrap the rainbow foil wrapper until after the full moon sets below the western horizon, and once installed, be sure to seal the entire circuit with epoxy resin. Otherwise after about 3 days the buzz of the blue-bottle flies will be a bit instrusive"
Well, I don't think any of us could come up with anything crazier than some of the quackery out there
This post is demonstrable proof that sleep deprivation can be powerful as many of your favorite mood alterating chemicals, and with fewer side effects. Just don't operate motor vehicles or heavy equipment
planet10 said:
I seem to recall that as well "as long as he can hear the Canuks' game,(canajun hockey, eh) that all that matters"
So I guess that means that this is what we would call a secondary system. Since Al has to actually try to make a living in this game, he may not have the time to listen to or certainly to tweak the last delicious drop of sonic nirvana from his personal audio system.
As certifiable audio-maniacs, that's our job
Hey, have you heard about the latest tweaky capacitor? - kosher balogna and balsamic vinegar. No really; I was sceptical too, until I got this personal e-mail from Peter Belt extolling the virtues of his latest discovery.
"You'll hear inner details and peer into subtle layers of hitherto unplumbed dimensions of space/time with these little babies. Just don't unwrap the rainbow foil wrapper until after the full moon sets below the western horizon, and once installed, be sure to seal the entire circuit with epoxy resin. Otherwise after about 3 days the buzz of the blue-bottle flies will be a bit instrusive"
Well, I don't think any of us could come up with anything crazier than some of the quackery out there
This post is demonstrable proof that sleep deprivation can be powerful as many of your favorite mood alterating chemicals, and with fewer side effects. Just don't operate motor vehicles or heavy equipment
Re: Thanks everyone! (LONG)
And here is Aaron with his Dayton... Aaron (a friend of Chris & i) got some of these and really thot they were outstanding. My fave project using them is David Brown's dB61TL.
dave
aaroncgi said:
And here is Aaron with his Dayton... Aaron (a friend of Chris & i) got some of these and really thot they were outstanding. My fave project using them is David Brown's dB61TL.
dave
Attachments
Re: Re: Re: More comments.
And you thot tube amps were expensive
Given that that is only a 10 dB very transitive peak, and the tube amp is not clipping in a nasty manner, yes it is possible for the tube amp to sound better. But here we get into quality not perceived quantity and as you will find over & over again here -- implementation is important.
It is the 1st miliwatt that is the most important...
dave
aaroncgi said:
And you thot tube amps were expensive
Given that that is only a 10 dB very transitive peak, and the tube amp is not clipping in a nasty manner, yes it is possible for the tube amp to sound better. But here we get into quality not perceived quantity and as you will find over & over again here -- implementation is important.
It is the 1st miliwatt that is the most important...
dave
Re: Duane's 2-ways
I think Duane's speakers just got named ... can someone tell him?
(and i did take notes: VIFA + VIFA) I betcha Andy G could tell us exactly what they are.
One of the better sounding speakers in room 1.
When 1st heard in room 1, Duane himself was quite mystified at the hardness of the top end ... after everyone left for other rooms he had them back up on the stands and was listening to one cut after the other, trying to get a handle on them.
Then we hauled them into room 3, where they sounded quite excellent... still a few minor problem areas. I suspect a little duct-seal wouldn't hurt -- not many seemed to know about this "majik" compound.
And here are the black beauties.
dave
chrisb said:
I think Duane's speakers just got named ... can someone tell him?
(and i did take notes: VIFA + VIFA) I betcha Andy G could tell us exactly what they are.
One of the better sounding speakers in room 1.
When 1st heard in room 1, Duane himself was quite mystified at the hardness of the top end ... after everyone left for other rooms he had them back up on the stands and was listening to one cut after the other, trying to get a handle on them.
Then we hauled them into room 3, where they sounded quite excellent... still a few minor problem areas. I suspect a little duct-seal wouldn't hurt -- not many seemed to know about this "majik" compound.
And here are the black beauties.
dave
Attachments
The Elf (and his cousin the Ant)
Not the best sounding ... not the cheapest, or the most expensive, but i figure the standout of the show.
These little babies, show the potential of the really small full-range (probably better described as an extended range mid-tweeter) with augmented bass. They struggle to hit 100 Hz, and can't do that with authority, but do a credible job from an octave above that, up, up, up... In the HT with the sub they were quite good.
Implementation here is a ported 1.5 way. (the Ant replaces the 2nd W3-871 with a different 3, choosen, i expect, in an attempt to get just a wee bit more on the bottom. RAW?). Each of these drivers is $12. That's 4 for $50.
Now, the 1st thing i thot when seeing them is 2 way with an active side-mounted 8" (or pair of 6.5"). If the woofers were low enuff sensitivity, you could even go passive (the one downside -- these things aren't real sensitive)
What is important about these thou is the alternate approach it engenders. Instead of a midbass & a tweeter, we have a woofer & a mid-tweeter. A whole new world opens up. And with active subs becoming so very common place ...
These little TagBands aren't the 1st to come along that would encorage this approach (usually either under represented like the Jordan JX53, or scary expensive like the Raven R3), but could well be the one with the right combination of sound quality, low price, and you have to admit, seductive good looks, to get people to experiment with and popularize this approach (which if anyone has been paying attention is pretty much what i've been doing with my FE103As and RS 40-1197s -- neither of which is readily available -- well you can buy the RS in Canada but how sexy is any RS speaker gonna be?)
And you could start a system with a pr... add a 2nd one ... then a woofer, and maybe a super tweeter (all these new exotic superTs, how long before 40 kHz is considered a given for a proper full-range system?
I'd love to get my hands on a set of 4 of these, and see how much more can be squeezed out of the configuration... i can already see a number of places where implementation tricks could make a better speaker. In the meantime, i have 2 pr of similar 3" (the exotic beauties and a set of W3-879S) to play with (and 4 Adire AV-3s).
dave
Not the best sounding ... not the cheapest, or the most expensive, but i figure the standout of the show.
These little babies, show the potential of the really small full-range (probably better described as an extended range mid-tweeter) with augmented bass. They struggle to hit 100 Hz, and can't do that with authority, but do a credible job from an octave above that, up, up, up... In the HT with the sub they were quite good.
Implementation here is a ported 1.5 way. (the Ant replaces the 2nd W3-871 with a different 3, choosen, i expect, in an attempt to get just a wee bit more on the bottom. RAW?). Each of these drivers is $12. That's 4 for $50.
Now, the 1st thing i thot when seeing them is 2 way with an active side-mounted 8" (or pair of 6.5"). If the woofers were low enuff sensitivity, you could even go passive (the one downside -- these things aren't real sensitive)
What is important about these thou is the alternate approach it engenders. Instead of a midbass & a tweeter, we have a woofer & a mid-tweeter. A whole new world opens up. And with active subs becoming so very common place ...
These little TagBands aren't the 1st to come along that would encorage this approach (usually either under represented like the Jordan JX53, or scary expensive like the Raven R3), but could well be the one with the right combination of sound quality, low price, and you have to admit, seductive good looks, to get people to experiment with and popularize this approach (which if anyone has been paying attention is pretty much what i've been doing with my FE103As and RS 40-1197s -- neither of which is readily available -- well you can buy the RS in Canada but how sexy is any RS speaker gonna be?)
And you could start a system with a pr... add a 2nd one ... then a woofer, and maybe a super tweeter (all these new exotic superTs, how long before 40 kHz is considered a given for a proper full-range system?
I'd love to get my hands on a set of 4 of these, and see how much more can be squeezed out of the configuration... i can already see a number of places where implementation tricks could make a better speaker. In the meantime, i have 2 pr of similar 3" (the exotic beauties and a set of W3-879S) to play with (and 4 Adire AV-3s).
dave
Attachments
The Cubes
And an example of how small an enclosure you can get away with...
More pictures at the RAW site. (a tip Al -- lose the frames)
These aluminum beauties were made by Dean, who seems to be a hidden talent at RAW and i am sure will keep encouraging them to think different.
dave
And an example of how small an enclosure you can get away with...
More pictures at the RAW site. (a tip Al -- lose the frames)
These aluminum beauties were made by Dean, who seems to be a hidden talent at RAW and i am sure will keep encouraging them to think different.
dave
Attachments
Hi Aaron,
Bearing in mind audio will always be subjective.
Had to reply.
The background: A friend of many years had bought himself a £700 (and this is 12-15 years ago), 100Wpc, CD direct-to-poweramp, bells and whistles, ultra-low THD, etc, etc, stereo amp. He was wondering what speakers to buy and I suggested the EPOS 14's, a favourite of mine at the time (and relatively easy to drive).
Down at the shop, these speakers did not appear to be giving that which I knew they were capable of. All we were getting was a sound that that completely lacked any sense of control, which extra volume only made worse, clipping was very obvious.
We then compared this amp to an Ion Obelisk One (20Wpc, I believe), which completely blew it out of the water on all fronts, and at the same high volume levels. This was in a large (approx. 15' by 20' plus). My point: Wattage is not that important.
I am an SS amp user at present, but made the mistake of selling a pair of Quad II valve amps some years ago because I thought a modern SS amp would sound better. Don't get me wrong, my Naim set-up has given me some serious 'raised -hair-on-the-back-of-the-neck' moments, but I have played both systems with the volume control well past the '3 o'clock' mark (Quad's driven with a Musical Fidelity pre-amp).
Both set-ups are stunning at these levels, but I do know that I could listen for a lot longer to the Quads at these levels than my Naims.
And the specs on my Quads were:
2x KT66, 2x EF86, 1xGZ32
Power output - 15W
Frequency response - 20-20 kHz +/- 0.2db
Input sensitivity - 1.4V for 15W
Signal to noise ratio - 70db
Output impedance - 7 and 15 ohms
Size - 4.75" x 13" x 6.5"
Harmonic distortion - 0.125%
Original price - £15 (1950's)
But this is only IMVHO.
Paul
Bearing in mind audio will always be subjective.
Had to reply.
The background: A friend of many years had bought himself a £700 (and this is 12-15 years ago), 100Wpc, CD direct-to-poweramp, bells and whistles, ultra-low THD, etc, etc, stereo amp. He was wondering what speakers to buy and I suggested the EPOS 14's, a favourite of mine at the time (and relatively easy to drive).
Down at the shop, these speakers did not appear to be giving that which I knew they were capable of. All we were getting was a sound that that completely lacked any sense of control, which extra volume only made worse, clipping was very obvious.
We then compared this amp to an Ion Obelisk One (20Wpc, I believe), which completely blew it out of the water on all fronts, and at the same high volume levels. This was in a large (approx. 15' by 20' plus). My point: Wattage is not that important.
I am an SS amp user at present, but made the mistake of selling a pair of Quad II valve amps some years ago because I thought a modern SS amp would sound better. Don't get me wrong, my Naim set-up has given me some serious 'raised -hair-on-the-back-of-the-neck' moments, but I have played both systems with the volume control well past the '3 o'clock' mark (Quad's driven with a Musical Fidelity pre-amp).
Both set-ups are stunning at these levels, but I do know that I could listen for a lot longer to the Quads at these levels than my Naims.
And the specs on my Quads were:
2x KT66, 2x EF86, 1xGZ32
Power output - 15W
Frequency response - 20-20 kHz +/- 0.2db
Input sensitivity - 1.4V for 15W
Signal to noise ratio - 70db
Output impedance - 7 and 15 ohms
Size - 4.75" x 13" x 6.5"
Harmonic distortion - 0.125%
Original price - £15 (1950's)
But this is only IMVHO.
Paul
SuppersReady said:
Paul,
what NAIM kit are you running?
And a mint pr will go on eBay for as much as $2,000 USD today.
I too pre-maturely gave up my Quad IIs (special because Ross Walker hand delivered a set of new 110V power transformers and a matched set of KT66 -- no charge for the trafos, $110 CAD for the KT66s). At least they went to a friend and i can still go listen to them.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
That is them perched on the sides of the ESL 57s (couldn't tell you which of the 4 there were mine)
dave
Hi Dave,
Naim set-up is 32.5, Snaps, 160. Capable of some nice sounds when the Sondek is properly adjusted.
Don't remind me about the price of the Quad's though
, I sold mine to a dealer for £90 about 12 years ago!
It's going to be a very interesting day when I finish my Aleph 5's and slot them in to the system. But Christmas is coming and I am led to believe that my children would not regard heatsinks as a suitable excuse for not getting presents this year. I look forward to the new year.
Quelle domage. ( I hope that's right, my French is seriously rusty!)
Paul
Naim set-up is 32.5, Snaps, 160. Capable of some nice sounds when the Sondek is properly adjusted.
Don't remind me about the price of the Quad's though
, I sold mine to a dealer for £90 about 12 years ago! It's going to be a very interesting day when I finish my Aleph 5's and slot them in to the system. But Christmas is coming and I am led to believe that my children would not regard heatsinks as a suitable excuse for not getting presents this year. I look forward to the new year.
Quelle domage. ( I hope that's right, my French is seriously rusty!)
Paul
. Not to mention the hi-fi. What are the turntables and other kit?
OK gents.
The winner of the guess that tweeter.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=279-312
This is the tweeter.
Duane had talked to me about them as they are the last of the Seas that PE sells for tweeters.
Thanks for the comments on the MCM MT.
I just realy like that design.Rick Craig did it and it used the D25 as on my site.
But I had these MCM 53-571 tweeters i got on sale for $5.00 each .And just asked Rick what to change as a simple drop in.
These were my second speakers I built.
So the sticky finish the veneer with a Spray on contact NEVER USE FOR VENEER.
Use the contact cement.After almost 25 sets not I have never had one fail as the ugly ducks did.
But learned from it.
Duane I ahve never seen post here and he is very quite on the side at PE and Mad as well.
On the ANTs, yes getting close.Have to un wind each inductor to get 100% of what I want.
And the lower driver cahnge.
To just smooth out the bottom end of the 1.5.
Much flatter using these ofhter drivers in the lower end.
And I have the ANT coming in a twin black paper driver.
more on that later.
Dean my cube builder.
Well a old Nuera customer who makes Aluminum furiture in Vancouver.And the cubes came out of it.
AS I showed the grills make look to industrial but I am going to have measurments loaded on my site for those who want to see the grills effects on the output of the cubes.
Did you guess.
Flattens out the range believe it or not.
And to put into production a speaker that is beyond Galo for 1/16 the money.Was a challenge.But it is done.
And the cubes are in stock and I can make them in 100-500 runs at a time.
Thanks All
Now we have to start for the Summer.
And that will be another thread.
The winner of the guess that tweeter.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=279-312
This is the tweeter.
Duane had talked to me about them as they are the last of the Seas that PE sells for tweeters.
Thanks for the comments on the MCM MT.
I just realy like that design.Rick Craig did it and it used the D25 as on my site.
But I had these MCM 53-571 tweeters i got on sale for $5.00 each .And just asked Rick what to change as a simple drop in.
These were my second speakers I built.
So the sticky finish the veneer with a Spray on contact NEVER USE FOR VENEER.
Use the contact cement.After almost 25 sets not I have never had one fail as the ugly ducks did.
But learned from it.
Duane I ahve never seen post here and he is very quite on the side at PE and Mad as well.
On the ANTs, yes getting close.Have to un wind each inductor to get 100% of what I want.
And the lower driver cahnge.
To just smooth out the bottom end of the 1.5.
Much flatter using these ofhter drivers in the lower end.
And I have the ANT coming in a twin black paper driver.
more on that later.
Dean my cube builder.
Well a old Nuera customer who makes Aluminum furiture in Vancouver.And the cubes came out of it.
AS I showed the grills make look to industrial but I am going to have measurments loaded on my site for those who want to see the grills effects on the output of the cubes.
Did you guess.
Flattens out the range believe it or not.
And to put into production a speaker that is beyond Galo for 1/16 the money.Was a challenge.But it is done.
And the cubes are in stock and I can make them in 100-500 runs at a time.
Thanks All
Now we have to start for the Summer.
And that will be another thread.
Re: Re: Duane's 2-ways
I agree with aaroncgi, I've got WAY too many passwords now. I think I'll just put a folder on my desktop called 'Passwords - Keep Out' and put them all there so I don't forget. On second thought that may not be such a great idea. I may have to resort to writing something down on paper.
Thanks, but as all I did was alter the cabinet dimension/volume/tuning, I think they should still be called Emblas. Designed by Seas (or by someone that Seas paid to design it, one of the two).
The drivers are both Seas: 25TAFC/D tweeter and P17REX woofer. Crossover is 2nd order at 3k.
I did some more listening when I got them home and I can tell you that as far as the 'SS Rulz/Yay, Tubes' debate goes, the difference between the 2 was not as significant as putting them back in a room that they liked. It's about 15x15 with 8 foot ceilings. It gives enough room gain below 70Hz that I can pull them out into the room to provide proper imaging without losing the low end. With the bottom end filled in, the overall volume could stay lower and the harshness in the tweet almost went away. It also helped to not have them toed-in.
My opinion on the harsh sound of the speakers in the first room would put most of the blame on the ~30 ft. long room. That, coupled with small speakers with small woofers that were too far from the back wall and sitting to high off the floor and you are bound to have problems.
Overall, a very enjoyable day. I was glad to meet all of you and expect to see more projects out when we do it again next year.
Back to work now,
duane
By the way, I think the winner was the ELFs. The sounded great and even with the necessity of a sub, this would make a very inexpensive HT.
I agree with aaroncgi, I've got WAY too many passwords now. I think I'll just put a folder on my desktop called 'Passwords - Keep Out' and put them all there so I don't forget. On second thought that may not be such a great idea. I may have to resort to writing something down on paper.
planet10 said:
Thanks, but as all I did was alter the cabinet dimension/volume/tuning, I think they should still be called Emblas. Designed by Seas (or by someone that Seas paid to design it, one of the two).
The drivers are both Seas: 25TAFC/D tweeter and P17REX woofer. Crossover is 2nd order at 3k.
I did some more listening when I got them home and I can tell you that as far as the 'SS Rulz/Yay, Tubes' debate goes, the difference between the 2 was not as significant as putting them back in a room that they liked. It's about 15x15 with 8 foot ceilings. It gives enough room gain below 70Hz that I can pull them out into the room to provide proper imaging without losing the low end. With the bottom end filled in, the overall volume could stay lower and the harshness in the tweet almost went away. It also helped to not have them toed-in.
My opinion on the harsh sound of the speakers in the first room would put most of the blame on the ~30 ft. long room. That, coupled with small speakers with small woofers that were too far from the back wall and sitting to high off the floor and you are bound to have problems.
Overall, a very enjoyable day. I was glad to meet all of you and expect to see more projects out when we do it again next year.
Back to work now,
duane
By the way, I think the winner was the ELFs. The sounded great and even with the necessity of a sub, this would make a very inexpensive HT.
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