Just thinking - probably the best system I ever heard was 30 years ago. We set up a demo in my theater with Western Electric 15A horns and Westrex drivers as the low mids, Iwata horns with TAD drivers for upper mids, JBL tweeters and the Onken W cabinets for the low end. It was an amazing shape shifting system.
Was wondering if a system with the SH-50 or SH-60 on top of a double 15 cabinet about the size of the Onken would work well. That's a bass cabinet about 45" wide, by 32" tall. That might have the size and scale of sound you are looking for. The big double 15 cabinet with the large mouth horn gave nice results. Find what crossover point works between bass cabinet and Synergy horn.
And as has been stated, you could EQ the horns, or come up with your own DSP crossovers. You would already have the passive crossover as a starting point, which is a huge head start.
Was wondering if a system with the SH-50 or SH-60 on top of a double 15 cabinet about the size of the Onken would work well. That's a bass cabinet about 45" wide, by 32" tall. That might have the size and scale of sound you are looking for. The big double 15 cabinet with the large mouth horn gave nice results. Find what crossover point works between bass cabinet and Synergy horn.
And as has been stated, you could EQ the horns, or come up with your own DSP crossovers. You would already have the passive crossover as a starting point, which is a huge head start.
Lots of fun experiments to be had!
If the tpl150h and Ae combo we've been talking about here can produce the spl needed, I'd really like to pursue it or something similar. Going back to the electronics discussion, what are everyone's thoughts on something like the lake lm26, deqx, or just using the capabilities of the trinnov altitude? Id really like to have the electronics, mic and software necessary for doing the best work. I have a feeling I'll end up doing these but never really stop tinkering with different designs for fun....I still have some bms4594, seos24 waveguides, some Ae drivers and I do t even know what else. Lots of stuff to have fun with. Plus I think at some point the ribbons will get better and I'd experiment with swap outs too. I've had a lot of fun building the few things I have and don't see myself stopping.
If the tpl150h and Ae combo we've been talking about here can produce the spl needed, I'd really like to pursue it or something similar. Going back to the electronics discussion, what are everyone's thoughts on something like the lake lm26, deqx, or just using the capabilities of the trinnov altitude? Id really like to have the electronics, mic and software necessary for doing the best work. I have a feeling I'll end up doing these but never really stop tinkering with different designs for fun....I still have some bms4594, seos24 waveguides, some Ae drivers and I do t even know what else. Lots of stuff to have fun with. Plus I think at some point the ribbons will get better and I'd experiment with swap outs too. I've had a lot of fun building the few things I have and don't see myself stopping.
Dedicated DSP hardware is nice it you already own it. Otherwise it can be done on the computer. The Lake is nice because it runs Dante, which allows for a lot of cool routing, virtual soundcards and other things. I don't know anything about the Trinnov.
Yep, you'll have something to tweak and fiddle with for decades, that's for sure.
Yep, you'll have something to tweak and fiddle with for decades, that's for sure.
Hi ChopShop,
I have owned had the BMS 4592ND (the 2" version of the 1.4" driver you have) and I never managed to get rid of a pronounced sibilance on t- and s- sounds - especially on female voices. This may have been due to my lack of expertise making crossovers, but at some point I simply gave up... So I fully understand that you are looking at alternatives for an all-out system. I currently use the Beyma TPL150H and can assure you that within its much more restricted bandwidth it simply sounds considerably more natural and relaxed. Whether the SPL abilities are sufficient for you is difficult to advice on.
However, before you ditch your current system with the large Seos24 and multiple 15" AE drivers, you may consider using a top-notch compression driver as a possible replacement for the BMS 4594ND, and see how that fares. If I were you, I would consider trying out a pair of Radian 745NdBe with beryllium diaphragms. They fit into your horns and probably sound more natural than the BMS. Another alternative is the TAD 4003 (very expensive), or the JBL 2435 which can be had relatively cheap second hand, but requires a 1.5" throat. I have never tried any of these myself, but would like to for sure. You would probably have to raise the crossover point a little, but it should not be a problem for TD15M's drivers.
Trying out one of these Be-beasts would be a relatively cheap way of finding out whether you should start all over again, or not.
Just a thought...
Best regards
Peter
I have owned had the BMS 4592ND (the 2" version of the 1.4" driver you have) and I never managed to get rid of a pronounced sibilance on t- and s- sounds - especially on female voices. This may have been due to my lack of expertise making crossovers, but at some point I simply gave up... So I fully understand that you are looking at alternatives for an all-out system. I currently use the Beyma TPL150H and can assure you that within its much more restricted bandwidth it simply sounds considerably more natural and relaxed. Whether the SPL abilities are sufficient for you is difficult to advice on.
However, before you ditch your current system with the large Seos24 and multiple 15" AE drivers, you may consider using a top-notch compression driver as a possible replacement for the BMS 4594ND, and see how that fares. If I were you, I would consider trying out a pair of Radian 745NdBe with beryllium diaphragms. They fit into your horns and probably sound more natural than the BMS. Another alternative is the TAD 4003 (very expensive), or the JBL 2435 which can be had relatively cheap second hand, but requires a 1.5" throat. I have never tried any of these myself, but would like to for sure. You would probably have to raise the crossover point a little, but it should not be a problem for TD15M's drivers.
Trying out one of these Be-beasts would be a relatively cheap way of finding out whether you should start all over again, or not.
Just a thought...
Best regards
Peter
I've found the BMS compression drivers I've used to be unlistenable. I cringe just thinking about them. It's almost as if they want them to hurt you. 
I wonder where people heard they were good? I remember years ago some guy building wooden radial horns pushed them. Every once in a while I'll see people on here talking about them and think poor fellow.
I wonder where people heard they were good? I remember years ago some guy building wooden radial horns pushed them. Every once in a while I'll see people on here talking about them and think poor fellow.
For what I think you seem to want, I would say that only a compression driver loaded waveguide - of proper design - will meet your goals. The woofers would need to be pro sound level drivers as well, with multiple subs.
Your goals, by the way, were exactly the same as what I set out with when I designed my first set of speakers (not the first set that I owned, just the first set that I built.) Nearly 20 years later I still have the exact same set and I have not heard anything that I liked better. Only now am I getting new speakers, but those are mainly cosmetic with updated driver changes. The basic design is exactly the same.
Getting the CD/waveguide right is, as you suggest, the key to a system like this. It can go all the way from unlistenable to sublime without a lot of differences in the basic design.
PS. Have measured a lot of BMS drivers, not too impressed. There are several good manufacturers out there, but I still prefer B&C for price and performance.
Your goals, by the way, were exactly the same as what I set out with when I designed my first set of speakers (not the first set that I owned, just the first set that I built.) Nearly 20 years later I still have the exact same set and I have not heard anything that I liked better. Only now am I getting new speakers, but those are mainly cosmetic with updated driver changes. The basic design is exactly the same.
Getting the CD/waveguide right is, as you suggest, the key to a system like this. It can go all the way from unlistenable to sublime without a lot of differences in the basic design.
PS. Have measured a lot of BMS drivers, not too impressed. There are several good manufacturers out there, but I still prefer B&C for price and performance.
I think about using dante but does it need proper mixing console to use that?
im happy with standard XLR in out of DAC on home stereo, its enough when you can turn amps on and tune them thru cat cable
of course theres wireless option
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No, you only need a network connection (free port on a hub/switch) and a Dante driver for your computer.
You can still do that and get the signal to the amps over the network. Might give you a whole lot more volume knobs, tho.
If price is realy no object ...
... then buy loudspeaker units already designed and tested for your application and focus all your efforts on the acoustics of the listening space, as this by far, will have the strongest influence and set the limits on the sonic results that you can achieve. If you like it loud and low as well, then special attention may need to be given to the construction details of the surrounding walls. Furthermore, room geometry and proportion are going to be the primary determinates of success, and not so much, the design details of the particular loudspeakers used.
Regards,
WHG
... then buy loudspeaker units already designed and tested for your application and focus all your efforts on the acoustics of the listening space, as this by far, will have the strongest influence and set the limits on the sonic results that you can achieve. If you like it loud and low as well, then special attention may need to be given to the construction details of the surrounding walls. Furthermore, room geometry and proportion are going to be the primary determinates of success, and not so much, the design details of the particular loudspeakers used.
Regards,
WHG
Hello All,
>snip<
I'd love to hear from the experienced folks here. Cost no object, to accomplish the above, what is your input?? Size constraints aren't an issue either. I'll also be using an sub system capable of matching anything we can come up with.
I'm open to any and all ideas you guys have and can't wait to hear what no holds barred designs could be implamented
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