Re: jamh
Hmm, do I have to? Do you mean that the reflectors are designed to cut off high frequencies?
In any case, that's a bit off topic. What I wanted to say is I just don't understand your argument. Why would you not want to radiate all the frequencies? My goal with these speakers were to create as much 3-dimensionality as possible.
If you look at shahinian speakers (and they do sound amazingly good to me) they have tweeters that shoot left, right and rear, as well as front. And it is logical, isn't it? You want to throw all of the sound everywhere.
I find my current sound quite good as it is. I don't find the ANs to shout at all, and they are such a bargain to boot!
hm said:
Hmm, do I have to? Do you mean that the reflectors are designed to cut off high frequencies?
In any case, that's a bit off topic. What I wanted to say is I just don't understand your argument. Why would you not want to radiate all the frequencies? My goal with these speakers were to create as much 3-dimensionality as possible.
If you look at shahinian speakers (and they do sound amazingly good to me) they have tweeters that shoot left, right and rear, as well as front. And it is logical, isn't it? You want to throw all of the sound everywhere.
I find my current sound quite good as it is. I don't find the ANs to shout at all, and they are such a bargain to boot!
In a concert hall you have the musicians in front of you which help you to locate the instrument
At home we dont have that luxury and need other tricks to locate the musician ... I find it most frustrating when a violin player is "all over the place" and not being able to point out where the musician is standing ... or sitting
At home we dont have that luxury and need other tricks to locate the musician ... I find it most frustrating when a violin player is "all over the place" and not being able to point out where the musician is standing ... or sitting
Ah, but I can assure you that the sound does come from a precise point in the soundstage. You just have to build one and experience it. When I had the switch in place and I turned off the top drivers, it was as if the ceiling had shrunk down to the size of the speakers (that's the best way I can describe it).
The key word here is "active" . This means they are using dedicated amps for the drivers with whatever amount of EQ necessary to make them have some extension in a cabinet that would otherwise have poor extension.
Manufacturers are trying to offer you the"cake and eat it too" story. A smaller cabinet that is more "living room friendly" , and extension that is found only in monolithic sized cabinets.
I would be willing to bet that your speakers have a rather large bass peak. Without measuring it we could argue forever, but the truth of the matter is that ONE of those drivers would require about 8-10 cu.ft. (226-283L) to achieve a Qcb of .7.
From some quick number crunching, it looks like your cabinets are about 3-3.5 cu.ft. each , unless the pedestal base is part of the enclosure. That means each driver is getting about 1.5 cu.ft. (not Litres as you posted) .
If this were a sealed cabinet , which it's not, the Qcb is somewhere in the area of 1.3 or so, which means you have a good 6db peak or so at about 90hz.
I don't know what you have the port tuned to , but this speaker seems like a mess. I find it hard to believe it has flat OR extended bass as you described.
I know this post sounds like an attack
, and maybe it ended up that way. It is only that your description of the bass is so ridiculous that I HAD to call you out on it. 
It's unfortunate, cause I am interested in the AN12's, and had hoped to hear some opinions about them before I plunked down my cash. I guess I'll have to keep looking for someone else that has a similar idea of good sound to myself.
For what it's worth , the cabinets look nice, and your description of construction seems reasonable.
I guess all that really matters is if you are happy with them. Sorry if I burst your bubble.
Have you tried a diffusor on top ... and maybe rolling off the front driver
Actually I have thought about trying 4 of these AN 12" ... but it gets a little expencive, around here they cost 250USD each ... but I wouldnt have dared to do what you have done
and I would probably use a tweeter too
At that price I am close to a pair of very nice EMS 12" ... maybe I should consider her offer of 4 x 16ohm drivers fore 1200 EUR
http://www.emspeaker.fr/home_ger.html
Ahhhh, maybe Supravox drivers will be good with a design like this
Actually I have thought about trying 4 of these AN 12" ... but it gets a little expencive, around here they cost 250USD each ... but I wouldnt have dared to do what you have done
and I would probably use a tweeter too At that price I am close to a pair of very nice EMS 12" ... maybe I should consider her offer of 4 x 16ohm drivers fore 1200 EUR
http://www.emspeaker.fr/home_ger.html
Ahhhh, maybe Supravox drivers will be good with a design like this
Nihilist,
The site mentioned at the start of this thread http://www.commonsenseaudio.com has enclosures and or plans that are available for purchase or included if you purchase some speakers. They show an OB on the web site that sort of caught my eye but I couldn't find it listed for sale anywhere. There is some nice looking stuff there and their designs started out in the DIY community so I'm checking things out for a project I have in mind.
Worth a look -
The site mentioned at the start of this thread http://www.commonsenseaudio.com has enclosures and or plans that are available for purchase or included if you purchase some speakers. They show an OB on the web site that sort of caught my eye but I couldn't find it listed for sale anywhere. There is some nice looking stuff there and their designs started out in the DIY community so I'm checking things out for a project I have in mind.
Worth a look -
Nihilist, don't worry about bursting my bubble. As for the volume:
15x25x24=9000 cubic inches=1.47l, more or less 1.5 like I said.
I like their sound a lot. Sorry if it doesn't compute for you. And why would you not consider the AN if I screwed up on my box construction?
I will take measurements and will post them.
15x25x24=9000 cubic inches=1.47l, more or less 1.5 like I said.
I like their sound a lot. Sorry if it doesn't compute for you. And why would you not consider the AN if I screwed up on my box construction?
I will take measurements and will post them.
I don't see how 9000cu.in. = 1.47 L .
9000cu.in./1728(how many cu.in. are in 1 cu.ft)=5.2cu.ft
5.2cu.ft. x 28.3(how many Litres are in 1 cu.ft.)=147Litres
You are off by a decimal. Perhaps a mix up somewhere in the conversion ?
My consideration of the AN12's doesn't have anything to do with your box construction. I thought your construction looked pretty good, I just thought your design/engineering wasn't quite right.
You took a medium/high Q speaker that would be well suited for a sealed cabinet, stuffed TL , OB, IB, or perhaps a MONSTROUS ported cabinet and stuck them in a small ported cabinet.
I may have misinterpreted your dimensions. I thought they were exterior dimension, hence the 3-3.5 cu.ft. reference I made in my other post. The Qcb , Peak at resonance , and resonant frequency I posted will all be lower if the dimensions you posted are the internal dimensions.
Are they internal or external dimensions ?
It's not that I wouldn't consider the AN12's based on your experience with them, just that based on what I've read , I am taking your description with a grain of salt.
I know audio is an individual thing , are ears are shaped different , we all have different personal tastes/goals with regards to our systems.
Maybe I'm just too constrained by the rules.........
Are the speakers BR , or an Aperiodic design ? If they are Aperiodic, then you can basically throw my first post out the window.
..................Blake
9000cu.in./1728(how many cu.in. are in 1 cu.ft)=5.2cu.ft
5.2cu.ft. x 28.3(how many Litres are in 1 cu.ft.)=147Litres
You are off by a decimal. Perhaps a mix up somewhere in the conversion ?
My consideration of the AN12's doesn't have anything to do with your box construction. I thought your construction looked pretty good, I just thought your design/engineering wasn't quite right.
You took a medium/high Q speaker that would be well suited for a sealed cabinet, stuffed TL , OB, IB, or perhaps a MONSTROUS ported cabinet and stuck them in a small ported cabinet.
I may have misinterpreted your dimensions. I thought they were exterior dimension, hence the 3-3.5 cu.ft. reference I made in my other post. The Qcb , Peak at resonance , and resonant frequency I posted will all be lower if the dimensions you posted are the internal dimensions.
Are they internal or external dimensions ?
It's not that I wouldn't consider the AN12's based on your experience with them, just that based on what I've read , I am taking your description with a grain of salt.
I know audio is an individual thing , are ears are shaped different , we all have different personal tastes/goals with regards to our systems.
Maybe I'm just too constrained by the rules.........
Are the speakers BR , or an Aperiodic design ? If they are Aperiodic, then you can basically throw my first post out the window. ..................Blake
Nihilist
I had some experience with what it seems drivers of same origins as I have posted earlier, mounted on folded horn cabinets. I have listened up to the 10inch model. If they actually have anything to do with the drivers in discussion here, I must say that they were very well sorted drivers. Resolving, calm, and just a bit darker than life (that could be the system driving them as well). All in all better than any big Fostex.
I would personally try them out since they also seem like being priced honestly enough.
I had some experience with what it seems drivers of same origins as I have posted earlier, mounted on folded horn cabinets. I have listened up to the 10inch model. If they actually have anything to do with the drivers in discussion here, I must say that they were very well sorted drivers. Resolving, calm, and just a bit darker than life (that could be the system driving them as well). All in all better than any big Fostex.
I would personally try them out since they also seem like being priced honestly enough.
Oh yes, that's no problem. How have you wired them -series or parallel? I'm assuming parallel? Couple of other questions. Are those internal dimensions? How long is the port? How far up is it centre of the vent from the internal bottom? How far down from the internal top is the centre of the forward-firing driver?
Assuming the dimensions given above are internal, paralleled drivers, a 3/4in vent length & approximate positions for drivers & vent, this is a 1st pass, quasi-anechoic farfield prediction (I didn't add any damping for this particular sim). The room & the above criteria will considerably modify this of course. With the additional information we can be much more accurate of course. I
Assuming the dimensions given above are internal, paralleled drivers, a 3/4in vent length & approximate positions for drivers & vent, this is a 1st pass, quasi-anechoic farfield prediction (I didn't add any damping for this particular sim). The room & the above criteria will considerably modify this of course. With the additional information we can be much more accurate of course. I
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Scottmoose said:
Thanks! Some answers to your questions:
+ internal dimensions.
+ parallel drivers.
+ 3/4 in vent length (The port is just a hole). Center of vent is about 4.5 inches from the bottom. From the internal top, the center of the driver is around 8.5in.
+ The internals are heavily damped, there is drywall and 3in of hard foam.
jamh
Hello,
bose did it with the 601 , in the 80?
shahinian does it,
but what crossover frequence? below 800 Hz?
you won´t get it with yours, directivety of the 12".
If you are happy with your sound,
you must not look on a measurement,
it was only a suggestion,
i made a study for 2 AN 10".
http://www.hm-moreart.de/93.htm
my experience shows a dominat point source
has a singularity in the reproduced noise,
a double gets more room but IMO the near field
detail of the recording loose a bit, the reflexions.
It is quite a taste question.
And if you like it.
Hello,
bose did it with the 601 , in the 80?
shahinian does it,
but what crossover frequence? below 800 Hz?
you won´t get it with yours, directivety of the 12".
If you are happy with your sound,
you must not look on a measurement,
it was only a suggestion,
i made a study for 2 AN 10".
http://www.hm-moreart.de/93.htm
my experience shows a dominat point source
has a singularity in the reproduced noise,
a double gets more room but IMO the near field
detail of the recording loose a bit, the reflexions.
It is quite a taste question.
And if you like it.
I find it rather amusing how close my calculator sealed box predictions are for this vented system. Not too shabby for a few minutes worth of number crunching.
You say the vent is 3/4" deep, so I assume there is no drywall around the vent area ?
Your vent looks like it is covered with something. What is it?
If the vent is obstructed by the bedding foam and if the grey material on the front is thick (wool or felt) , then I would say this leans more toward an Aperiodic system than a vented one.
If the vent is unobstructed except for the grey material , then I would say it is a vented system.
Reasonable bass to 50hz.
What does the Blue line symbolise in the CPU response graph,
in-room response ?
..........................Blake
You say the vent is 3/4" deep, so I assume there is no drywall around the vent area ?
Your vent looks like it is covered with something. What is it?
If the vent is obstructed by the bedding foam and if the grey material on the front is thick (wool or felt) , then I would say this leans more toward an Aperiodic system than a vented one.
If the vent is unobstructed except for the grey material , then I would say it is a vented system.
Reasonable bass to 50hz.
What does the Blue line symbolise in the CPU response graph,
in-room response ?
..........................Blake
Turns out I wasn't far out -those dimensions are almost exactly what I'd SWAG'd for the above sim. Refining it slightly to use your exact dimensions, and taking the damping into account gives the attached. Is this a commonsenseaudio cabinet by any chance?
In-room, I suspect you'd get down to about 40Hz with room-gain. On the positive side, with those two 12in drivers, sensitivity is extremely high, but that big peak at Fc is going to make for, er, a pretty powerful midbass, to put it mildly. That's probably why it doesn't sound 'cramped.' If you like some grunt, this is going to give it -most of the energy in rock music for example is around this point, so it's going to sound extremely dynamic & quite vivid.
In-room, I suspect you'd get down to about 40Hz with room-gain. On the positive side, with those two 12in drivers, sensitivity is extremely high, but that big peak at Fc is going to make for, er, a pretty powerful midbass, to put it mildly. That's probably why it doesn't sound 'cramped.' If you like some grunt, this is going to give it -most of the energy in rock music for example is around this point, so it's going to sound extremely dynamic & quite vivid.
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