Hi tcpip,
I only just came about this thread so pardon me if some of what I write has already been said - or said differently ...
I used to work in a mid-to-highend audio shop here in Denmark and IMHO
the speakers are the most important component in a system and carefully selected may account for up to 70-80% of the sound quality.
Additionally, one quite important aspect in selecting a system for - any - person is the room it is to be used in as well as the cables to be used. In my experience cables can adjust both the basic musicality - "twisting musicality" so to say, the tonal balance and resolution to quite some extent.
If possible I may also very much suggest that your friend gets the possibility to listen to various components in-room and in system context before deciding. Maybe by arranging with various dealers to send back & forth some equipment (maybe at her cost - may be well worth it). And if she is not that much of an audiophile - but cares about listening to music - an additional suggestion could be to gather a small selection of considered equipment (incl. cables) and then take e.g. a weekend to combine the components and find out what she best likes in the room it is to be used.
... I reckon most of this may already have been said ... but in case it hasn't my two cents ...
Cheers,
Jesper
I only just came about this thread so pardon me if some of what I write has already been said - or said differently ...
I used to work in a mid-to-highend audio shop here in Denmark and IMHO
the speakers are the most important component in a system and carefully selected may account for up to 70-80% of the sound quality.
Additionally, one quite important aspect in selecting a system for - any - person is the room it is to be used in as well as the cables to be used. In my experience cables can adjust both the basic musicality - "twisting musicality" so to say, the tonal balance and resolution to quite some extent.
If possible I may also very much suggest that your friend gets the possibility to listen to various components in-room and in system context before deciding. Maybe by arranging with various dealers to send back & forth some equipment (maybe at her cost - may be well worth it). And if she is not that much of an audiophile - but cares about listening to music - an additional suggestion could be to gather a small selection of considered equipment (incl. cables) and then take e.g. a weekend to combine the components and find out what she best likes in the room it is to be used.
... I reckon most of this may already have been said ... but in case it hasn't my two cents ...
Cheers,
Jesper
Hi TC much though i love the Hegel i think the Parasound would be the one to get for many of the reasons that Anatech mentioned previously,plus it removes any concerns about power ,or lack of,from the equation.
As for cables , sigh ...................... Blue Jeans will be fine .
* note regarding cable advice " i used to work in a mid/high end audio shop " .......tells you all you need to know..............no offfence intended Jasper
As for cables , sigh
...................... Blue Jeans will be fine .* note regarding cable advice " i used to work in a mid/high end audio shop " .......tells you all you need to know..............no offfence intended Jasper
In a semi-unrelated context, I had a sudden query while looking at the internal photo of the Parasound amp.
The photo indicated that each output rail of each channel of the amp uses two OPS transistor devices. This set me thinking.
I've seen that in Marantz amps, their only models which have more than one OPS device per rail are the ones costing $2000 or more. Ditto, many other good brands. What gives? It's well known that adding more OPS devices (up to a point) proves many characteristics of the amp. Why can't they add a second OPS transistor to their slightly cheaper models too?
The only brand which breaks this price floor and has dual OPS devices is Outlaw Audio. (I've seen the spec of their integrated amp.)
I wish there were better topologies at a more reasonable price.
The photo indicated that each output rail of each channel of the amp uses two OPS transistor devices. This set me thinking.
I've seen that in Marantz amps, their only models which have more than one OPS device per rail are the ones costing $2000 or more. Ditto, many other good brands. What gives? It's well known that adding more OPS devices (up to a point) proves many characteristics of the amp. Why can't they add a second OPS transistor to their slightly cheaper models too?
The only brand which breaks this price floor and has dual OPS devices is Outlaw Audio. (I've seen the spec of their integrated amp.)
I wish there were better topologies at a more reasonable price.
Hi tcpip,
The number of outputs used in an amplifier depends both on the topology and bias current if you keep everything else a constant. It comes down to reliability long term, and the needs of course. I would never use more outputs than required because the additional output transistors should be matched. The newer On-Semi products are pretty good right out of the packaging for this. So whether an amplifier uses a pair or quad of output transistors per channel is not something that improves sound quality right out pf the gate.
PA amps are not built with the same concerns for fidelity as home amplifiers are. I'm sure they sound good as a PA amp, but not compared to a better home amplifier. They will build to being more reliable (on average), and the sound quality takes a back seat to that. Being that "pro- amps" are in a cost sensitive market, don't expect audio quality to be a prime characteristic. They are built with survival in mind, not high fidelity.
I have seen a couple PA amps over the years that could work well in a living room. The Yamaha PC-2002 for example. The rest can sound "okay", but not anywhere near the Yamaha amplifier I just mentioned. Also, watch for cooling fans. Many pro-amps use them and they are noisy - especially after some time has passed. That Yamaha is convection cooled only, so not noisy. Still, I think the Parasound is the right direction to go in.
-Chris
The number of outputs used in an amplifier depends both on the topology and bias current if you keep everything else a constant. It comes down to reliability long term, and the needs of course. I would never use more outputs than required because the additional output transistors should be matched. The newer On-Semi products are pretty good right out of the packaging for this. So whether an amplifier uses a pair or quad of output transistors per channel is not something that improves sound quality right out pf the gate.
PA amps are not built with the same concerns for fidelity as home amplifiers are. I'm sure they sound good as a PA amp, but not compared to a better home amplifier. They will build to being more reliable (on average), and the sound quality takes a back seat to that. Being that "pro- amps" are in a cost sensitive market, don't expect audio quality to be a prime characteristic. They are built with survival in mind, not high fidelity.
I have seen a couple PA amps over the years that could work well in a living room. The Yamaha PC-2002 for example. The rest can sound "okay", but not anywhere near the Yamaha amplifier I just mentioned. Also, watch for cooling fans. Many pro-amps use them and they are noisy - especially after some time has passed. That Yamaha is convection cooled only, so not noisy. Still, I think the Parasound is the right direction to go in.
-Chris
Hi all,
Just for the record - when I say cables matter I do not necessarily say that expensive cables are needed/"better". I/customers have had good results with quite reasonably priced cables (USD 4 per meter) and also have had cables costing ~ USD 1100 per meter (both loudspeaker cables).
The differences were huge, however, whether or not the one or the other is desired IMHO depends very much on the context. And personally I would not put a significant part of my budget in cables but "keep the scene open" for tuning the system through cable selection.
Whereas loudspeakers, amplifiers and DACs may not always be easily replaceable unplugging and plugging a couple of cables can be relatively straightforward and price-wise accessible. In my experience even lower cost cables from various manufacturers often have "company specific" sonic signatures that may add what may be desired.
Good luck with this endeavour tcpip ;-)
Jesper
Just for the record - when I say cables matter I do not necessarily say that expensive cables are needed/"better". I/customers have had good results with quite reasonably priced cables (USD 4 per meter) and also have had cables costing ~ USD 1100 per meter (both loudspeaker cables).
The differences were huge, however, whether or not the one or the other is desired IMHO depends very much on the context. And personally I would not put a significant part of my budget in cables but "keep the scene open" for tuning the system through cable selection.
Whereas loudspeakers, amplifiers and DACs may not always be easily replaceable unplugging and plugging a couple of cables can be relatively straightforward and price-wise accessible. In my experience even lower cost cables from various manufacturers often have "company specific" sonic signatures that may add what may be desired.
Good luck with this endeavour tcpip ;-)
Jesper
The OP asked for advice about components for a sound system, not for ingredients for a witch's cauldron. There are plenty of threads about this form of witchcraft, all pointless and a waste of time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases
I understand where you are coming from. But my friend is not an audiophile, she is a music lover. She may be more interested in listening to music than in tweaking the sound of her system.
And if my opinion is considered, I'd rather push her towards adding a room correction component than play with cables. Just my opinion.
And if my opinion is considered, I'd rather push her towards adding a room correction component than play with cables.
Just my opinion.
.......my friend is not an audiophile, she is a music lover. She may be more interested in listening to music than in tweaking the sound of her system.
This is how it starts .....
I hang around on a few fora, one of them being AVS where pro amps are used for pretty much everything, and there are reports of people putting their PA amps next to some big-name HiFi amps and actually finding it difficult to pick between the two.
Here's some measurements of a QSC amp: Measuring Amplifiers - Page 18 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Anyway, I'm not going to push it further. Good pro amps show excellent distortion and noise figures, have massive amounts of headroom, and are often an order of magnitude cheaper than a HiFi power amp.
I wouldn't suggest them if I didn't think they're a good idea.
Chris
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