fastdata said:
Hey kid there just come a time where you stop listening
what meters tell you, and what is good sound,taste of a drink
,color contrast of a tv screen, people will like different things
meters say nothing, AKSA amplifiers are real good if not the best
Think good sound use your ears..
You're perfectly entitled to your opinion. And how do you listen to a meter ?? I didn't think they made any noises or could talk
john curl said:
Hello,
I'm not going to argue about which engineer is doing a better job but looking at a wider perspective on amplifier topology have a read on this. You may or may not agree but sombody has penned down their findings here:
Go straight to the SOUND
http://www.triode-systems.com/?q=node/19
cheers.
My next door neighbour likely disagrees, not a Brit-parade driver but uses his Bentley daily to drive to his company instead of taking the M or one of the other Mercs.
The amusing bit : this mint late series Turbo-R was imported from Japan.
As in: Parts don't mean S...
Please name the case then.
Attachments
This is the most reasonable thing you've written so far.snoopy said:
It's quite simple really. You just subtract an appropriately scaled down version of the output signal from the input and observe the residual. If there is any residual left then you still have some work to do
I don't know what your beef is about Naim. You cannot argue against their popularity in the 1970s and 1980s and you cannot argue about their business success. If a product is rotten value for money then people don't buy it. Usually, if a company finds a way to make a highly competitive product with far fewer parts, it is praiseworthy.
What is the root of your animosity? Not that it is any of my business, of course.
I don't know how old you are. If you were around in the 1970s you would recall that the hifi business was quite different from today. Then, in the UK, hifi was a big hobby, mostly for blokes, and it was normal to spend time listening to music at home in the evening. Guys did this rather than playing on PCs or watching DVDs. Hifi was expensive: much more so per unit of sound quality that it is today. You wanted to craft your system yourself, adding this and that, adjusting this and that, upgrading in stages. You wanted to share the experience with friends and share new ideas. And in the 1970's, the new technology was transistors; cheaper and more reliable than tubes. There was also the in pouring of cheap hifi components from Japan, products that were like MS-DOS was to the computer industry - really cheap and really crap. In a similar way to Apple finding a usability niche which Microshaft were flooding the World with MS dross, Naim were trying to establish a niche where the sound quality of the dying tube world could be retained with the new technology of transistors, and where the British hifi industry could differentiate itself from the cheap Japanese imports. Naim was very smart to ally with Linn to provide a complete system solution, with scalability so a lower cost starter system could be bought. This created an "owners club" loyalty.
IMO, Naim are no longer leaders because they failed to change with the times. People no longer care about the "owners club" and people have other things to do in their evenings now, not least PC activities. People don't wish to have large spaces in their living rooms for racks of black boxes. Price per unit sound quality is now much lower and build and functionality expectations are much higher. IMO, Naim equipment looks passe to me - it looks better than the Maplin style it used to have, but it is still rather retro without even the benefit of the charming glow of tubes. Their dogged determination to give the customer what they liked rather than what the customer desired, was a mistake. The DIN connectors and speaker cable restrictions are just two example of this.
The other big factor is that they lost their ability to keep up technically. They are still (I believe) stuck in the same amp topology groove and still doing the building block approach, which now looks increasingly like a scam. People now expect a modestly sized, highly styled box to do everything and sound fantastic without needing a load of add-ons to make it sound its best. Minimalism is passe. Naim stuck with their PRaT advantage and forgot that their competitors were catching up on this aspect and doing all the other stuff much better. If you look at their website, their product range and style is pretty similar in form to how it was 30 years ago, with the exception of speakers and CD players.
jacco vermeulen said:
My next door neighbour likely disagrees, not a Brit-parade driver but uses his Bentley daily to drive to his company instead of taking the M or one of the other Mercs.
The amusing bit : this mint late series Turbo-R was imported from Japan.
As in: Parts don't mean S...
Please name the case then.
Luxman SQ507X Integrated amp. 1975 vintage or there abouts. Rated at 50W per channel into 8 ohms.
Complimentary output devices in TO-3 package
2SD218 = 150V / 7A / 60W / fT = 10 Mhz
2SA649 = 150V / 7A / 60W / fT = 10 MHz
Clarkson is an idiot without the foggiest clue about cars and couldn't get a contract with a commercial TV-station while the other TG blokes as Tiffany Needell could.
The Clarkson character was drooling at Mercs and F-cars in the original Top Gear series, i used to go for a pee when the redhead appeared.
The lucky stiff makes 2 million quid a year on the TV show alone, and just because the BBC decided to restart the program as the commercial station car shows draw too many viewers.
Top Gear is a nice parallel to the current UK audio state of affairs.
The Clarkson character was drooling at Mercs and F-cars in the original Top Gear series, i used to go for a pee when the redhead appeared.
The lucky stiff makes 2 million quid a year on the TV show alone, and just because the BBC decided to restart the program as the commercial station car shows draw too many viewers.
Top Gear is a nice parallel to the current UK audio state of affairs.
traderbam said:
This is the most reasonable thing you've written so far.
I don't know what your beef is about Naim. You cannot argue against their popularity in the 1970s and 1980s and you cannot argue about their business success. If a product is rotten value for money then people don't buy it. Usually, if a company finds a way to make a highly competitive product with far fewer parts, it is praiseworthy.
What is the root of your animosity? Not that it is any of my business, of course.
I never said they weren't popular and I even stated that they had a good marketing campaign. But the product was overrated for what was being offered as well as being inherently unreliable. In other words what I am saying from an engineering perspective it was overpriced junk and it is certainly not sort after today on the 2nd hand market compared to those Japanese products that most people on this forum love to hate !!
Overpriced junk?snoopy said:
I think what you are saying is that you don't like the imperfections in the engineering of the products, as you see them. That is different from claiming something is overpriced or junk. Naim products cannot possibly be overpriced junk or they would not have sold so well and have such a widespread reputation for reliability. Try to say what you really mean rather than spray invective about, indiscriminately.
What is the purpose of engineering...is it art or is it serving practical needs? The best engineered product is worthless unless it serves a need better than an available alternative. Outside the notebook of theory, all practical engineering requires a balance between cost and durability and features and accuracy and so an and so forth. Otherwise it is just an intellectual curiosity.
Let me test how well you can think.snoopy said:
That's the one
Give your engineering reasons for claiming complementary outputs are better, sonically, than pseudo-complemenatary ones.
traderbam said:
What are you talking about, there are people paying $2000 or more dollars for silly speaker cables and using them on $1500 speakers
Just because something sells doesn't mean it is any good or is fit for the purpose it is intended for.Naim equipment had none of these qualities. It didn't even have proper heatsinks which meant that it was unreliable on a warm day. I know someone who had one once and the thing kept cutting out when it got too hot. It was under engineered rubbish. Can't you see this ??
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