I felt myself shy and also proud to see how Lineup had colected my foolishes.
I am very happy that Sheldon is here too...he is a very nice and old friend.
The guy that substituted the electrolitic condenser by bigger values perceived increase in bass...i also perceive this way too.
Good to see you inside a nice conversation...lets go ahead guys.
Very good.
thank you Lineup.... you are a good friend too...and a very old friend also.
.................................
I will post some lyes in audio, already published in our forum some monthes ago...here is the link, it can be good to discuss.
http://sonido.uchile.cl/articulos/tenbiggestliesaudio.pdf
....................................
That piano friend has good ears...maybe a golden one...and he will apreciate that sound your told..for sure he will like those things.
regards,
Carlos
I am very happy that Sheldon is here too...he is a very nice and old friend.
The guy that substituted the electrolitic condenser by bigger values perceived increase in bass...i also perceive this way too.
Good to see you inside a nice conversation...lets go ahead guys.
Very good.
thank you Lineup.... you are a good friend too...and a very old friend also.
.................................
I will post some lyes in audio, already published in our forum some monthes ago...here is the link, it can be good to discuss.
http://sonido.uchile.cl/articulos/tenbiggestliesaudio.pdf
....................................
That piano friend has good ears...maybe a golden one...and he will apreciate that sound your told..for sure he will like those things.
regards,
Carlos
Attachments
Re: I felt myself shy and also proud to see how Lineup had colected my foolishes.
Yes, I remember that topic Audio Lies
which shows that, sometimes, Mikeks can produce very good discussions!
------------------------------------------------------------
Regarding that document: tenbiggestliesaudio.pdf
I have this lineup comment:
I see many situations where a blind test is the only alternative
to find out what is a real sound difference and an imaginary illusion.
This is not unique for audio.
Blind tests is the only instrument to get knowledge
in many other areas.
Question is why many refuse to recognize this test method within audio.
When it is a valid way to investigate things,
and used to verify scientific works.
If you do not know your own mind,
you do not know much.
Because your mind is the filter of reality around you.
lineup
destroyer X said:
Yes, I remember that topic Audio Lies
which shows that, sometimes, Mikeks can produce very good discussions!
------------------------------------------------------------
Regarding that document: tenbiggestliesaudio.pdf
I have this lineup comment:
I see many situations where a blind test is the only alternative
to find out what is a real sound difference and an imaginary illusion.
This is not unique for audio.
Blind tests is the only instrument to get knowledge
in many other areas.
Question is why many refuse to recognize this test method within audio.
When it is a valid way to investigate things,
and used to verify scientific works.
If you do not know your own mind,
you do not know much.
Because your mind is the filter of reality around you.
lineup
Re: Re: Re: Re: You know dear fratello Barchetta, this is an Italian name
And the artists and producers intended for you to hear the recording exactly how? They intended what room and with what speakers? Surely they didn't intend for you to listen to the recording in their mastering studio, or in an exact duplicate? Rest assured that any subtle harmonic content added by a good amplifier will be dwarfed by those from the room and the speakers.
Sheldon
Bratislav said:
And the artists and producers intended for you to hear the recording exactly how? They intended what room and with what speakers? Surely they didn't intend for you to listen to the recording in their mastering studio, or in an exact duplicate? Rest assured that any subtle harmonic content added by a good amplifier will be dwarfed by those from the room and the speakers.
Sheldon
Re: Re: I felt myself shy and also proud to see how Lineup had colected my foolishes.
Then there is the old standby that if people were to actually critically examine the difference between components within their system, there would be far fewer "upgrades."
Just my $0.02.
David
I'll have a go at offering one scenario: Not a lot of people are willing/have the equipment to properly switch items in and out of the audio chain to properly perform the blind tests! I know this is a cop-out, but if you do not have a proper switch box, or do not have a friend to perform the switching for you then the results can "often" be misleading.lineup said:
Then there is the old standby that if people were to actually critically examine the difference between components within their system, there would be far fewer "upgrades."
Just my $0.02.
David
Dfdye, this is OK, as some nice explanation of a possibility, i tend to agree.
But i had many times suggested to friends that were constructing amplifiers, they were constructing a stereo unit, having two boards under construction.
I suggest them to install other values into the board 2.... remove for instance Black Gate condensers (the one was complaining that those capacitors are mutant..one day sounding this way and the other day sounding that way)..... i told that another board with standard condensers would be a reference, and stable, as normal condensers do not go changing its characteristics, its behavior related to audio.
The Black Gates condensers cost many times the standard ones..an recognized by many folks as something special...i told him, to that friend that the sound was not changing, that was only illusion, one day sounded thin and other day sounding fat...i told that with a nigth of difference between those things happening, that no one can evaluate and compare nothing with this time gap between testings...the guy insisted that he had memory to conclude things, that the time gap was not the problem.
So....my ideas and his ideas were in dueling position.... go 10 steps, turn and shot!.... the one refused to use normal condensers in one channel and finished the whole amplifier with standard condensers (if i remenber things happened this way...or something alike this way).
You may say that the guy is stupid...i ensure you that he is not..exactly the opposite, he is extremelly inteligent...even loosing that chance to real know the reality.
The problem is that normally people do not mind to see reality, the love to feed their own dreams... to travel over the illusions, seaching for the paradise inside his own brain....living inside a shell of protection...creating a new world, customised for his needs.
The one just had no interest to face the reality...in the guys dream sound reproduction has zillions of possibilites...ou can install your amplifier over wood into some wall and it will sound wooden...if you install over a metal...maybe methalic (for instance)...those awfull ideas can populate those dreamer minds.
The real testings...one channel with normal standard condenser and other with famous Black Gates could smash (I have made the test..do it by yourself to see if it is gold or snake oil)....could smash all his previous ideas.
But this will clear show that he was stupid to buy those expensive condensers....that he behave alike a clown in front of his friends for years long...so....this possibility is not possible.
That's the problem..people do not want to see the true.... i think if you install a Hiper Magnet from Mars into a capsule and tell people that will sound much better because hiper magnet will keep electrons flow linear....you will have millions buying and for sure you will be rich....this will depends how good is your marketing.
That possibility, to smash Black Gates for instance, did not needed switches...just another one to install your speaker wires...and you will have not the result....you can operate the ballance control by yourself and make notes..to write your results and try it many times...when conclude if channels sound different or not....when conclude the one sounded better...you can keep your amplifier playing for 10 days.... 24 hours each day.... cd player returning and playing once again....do not observe the amplifier back panel...go to speakers and install resistances there not to have sound 24 hours a days disturbing yourself and neighborhood, ..... check it once more after condenser is "burned"...and them conclude.
People just do not want to do that...they say a lot fo things...too much work..too much time.... the amplifier will be only doing that (not a true...he can remove resistance and replace CDs and listen to the music)...well.... the one will create all obstacles...all impeachments.
Of course those ones are not a representative of all audiophiles, but i ensure you that they are thousands...and they are the ones feed all those Myths...as they do not try to bust anything..the opposite, they feed those things.
regards,
Carlos
But i had many times suggested to friends that were constructing amplifiers, they were constructing a stereo unit, having two boards under construction.
I suggest them to install other values into the board 2.... remove for instance Black Gate condensers (the one was complaining that those capacitors are mutant..one day sounding this way and the other day sounding that way)..... i told that another board with standard condensers would be a reference, and stable, as normal condensers do not go changing its characteristics, its behavior related to audio.
The Black Gates condensers cost many times the standard ones..an recognized by many folks as something special...i told him, to that friend that the sound was not changing, that was only illusion, one day sounded thin and other day sounding fat...i told that with a nigth of difference between those things happening, that no one can evaluate and compare nothing with this time gap between testings...the guy insisted that he had memory to conclude things, that the time gap was not the problem.
So....my ideas and his ideas were in dueling position.... go 10 steps, turn and shot!.... the one refused to use normal condensers in one channel and finished the whole amplifier with standard condensers (if i remenber things happened this way...or something alike this way).
You may say that the guy is stupid...i ensure you that he is not..exactly the opposite, he is extremelly inteligent...even loosing that chance to real know the reality.
The problem is that normally people do not mind to see reality, the love to feed their own dreams... to travel over the illusions, seaching for the paradise inside his own brain....living inside a shell of protection...creating a new world, customised for his needs.
The one just had no interest to face the reality...in the guys dream sound reproduction has zillions of possibilites...ou can install your amplifier over wood into some wall and it will sound wooden...if you install over a metal...maybe methalic (for instance)...those awfull ideas can populate those dreamer minds.
The real testings...one channel with normal standard condenser and other with famous Black Gates could smash (I have made the test..do it by yourself to see if it is gold or snake oil)....could smash all his previous ideas.
But this will clear show that he was stupid to buy those expensive condensers....that he behave alike a clown in front of his friends for years long...so....this possibility is not possible.
That's the problem..people do not want to see the true.... i think if you install a Hiper Magnet from Mars into a capsule and tell people that will sound much better because hiper magnet will keep electrons flow linear....you will have millions buying and for sure you will be rich....this will depends how good is your marketing.
That possibility, to smash Black Gates for instance, did not needed switches...just another one to install your speaker wires...and you will have not the result....you can operate the ballance control by yourself and make notes..to write your results and try it many times...when conclude if channels sound different or not....when conclude the one sounded better...you can keep your amplifier playing for 10 days.... 24 hours each day.... cd player returning and playing once again....do not observe the amplifier back panel...go to speakers and install resistances there not to have sound 24 hours a days disturbing yourself and neighborhood, ..... check it once more after condenser is "burned"...and them conclude.
People just do not want to do that...they say a lot fo things...too much work..too much time.... the amplifier will be only doing that (not a true...he can remove resistance and replace CDs and listen to the music)...well.... the one will create all obstacles...all impeachments.
Of course those ones are not a representative of all audiophiles, but i ensure you that they are thousands...and they are the ones feed all those Myths...as they do not try to bust anything..the opposite, they feed those things.
regards,
Carlos
Re: Re: Re: I felt myself shy and also proud to see how Lineup had colected my foolis
I have also once said, think in same topic Audio Lies:
"Some people are so afraid of doing blind listening test
that there are probably like 20 different excuses
and problems
they will invent
.... just to not to fail in a blind test"
Because,
they say that they can hear.
But they also know, somewhere deep inside,
that they would possibly fail to prove their point.
This is why they would 'invent' any reason they can.
Just to keep things un-tested.
As long as no test is done,
they can keep telling themselves, that they can hear.
******************************************
Your post, dfdye,
is for me, just another example
to confirm this fact.
No offense, please.
My audiophile friends.
But, I have read such reasons many times before
why blind testing is SOOOOO BAAAAD.
And do not be so afraid:
Because nobody can force you to take a valid listening test
if YOU do not want to.
Regards
lineup
lineup [b]Originally posted by lineup Question is why many refuse to recognize this test method within audio. When it is a valid way to investigate things said:
I have also once said, think in same topic Audio Lies:
"Some people are so afraid of doing blind listening test
that there are probably like 20 different excuses
and problems
they will invent
.... just to not to fail in a blind test"
Because,
they say that they can hear.
But they also know, somewhere deep inside,
that they would possibly fail to prove their point.
This is why they would 'invent' any reason they can.
Just to keep things un-tested.
As long as no test is done,
they can keep telling themselves, that they can hear.
******************************************
Your post, dfdye,
is for me, just another example
to confirm this fact.
No offense, please.
My audiophile friends.
But, I have read such reasons many times before
why blind testing is SOOOOO BAAAAD.
And do not be so afraid:
Because nobody can force you to take a valid listening test
if YOU do not want to.
Regards
lineup
I can remember that friend scaping from the true
I have not wires to make those testing
I have no switch
I have not time
I have no supply to check another amplifier
Them i told him:
- "pick the supply voltage inside your amplifier case, run three pretty wires only, and bring them outside to the other power amplifier under test...Perfect!...same supply, good to compare...supply differences will be out of the problem"
Do you know the answer...do you know the answer?...do you wanna know the answer?
- "I have no conector to place in the output panels to install external supply"
Can you believe that?...can you believe that?...but happened, the guy is a very good and nice friend, a very intelligent Engineer, responsable of a very important work in his country....so...even those clever guys wants to be fooled.... so....let's construct amplifier and sell them by 50K dollares...US dollares, as those ones that loves to be fooled will pay smilling.... they may think that expensive equipments may have a much better sound.
Heavy ones too...so i will install a stone inside to make them heavy!
The solder will destroy..will finish with the board!!!
Will be so ugly those paralleled (temporary test parts) thing under my board..
My God...he jumped as pop corn inside hot can...an now a days he continues to believe Black Gates sounds better...not knowing if the is really true or not.
Alike a Religion...a belief...not scientific.
You may conclude that the folk is idiot...i ensure you that he is not, he is a sample of a very common and large group of audiophiles that loves to fool themselves, you may see that those people can draw images, can paint things, they may be artist too...they love to dream...just dreamers not idiots.
Reality is something very flexible for them...something to be twisted, splited or made helical.
regards,
Carlos
I have not wires to make those testing
I have no switch
I have not time
I have no supply to check another amplifier
Them i told him:
- "pick the supply voltage inside your amplifier case, run three pretty wires only, and bring them outside to the other power amplifier under test...Perfect!...same supply, good to compare...supply differences will be out of the problem"
Do you know the answer...do you know the answer?...do you wanna know the answer?
- "I have no conector to place in the output panels to install external supply"
Can you believe that?...can you believe that?...but happened, the guy is a very good and nice friend, a very intelligent Engineer, responsable of a very important work in his country....so...even those clever guys wants to be fooled.... so....let's construct amplifier and sell them by 50K dollares...US dollares, as those ones that loves to be fooled will pay smilling.... they may think that expensive equipments may have a much better sound.
Heavy ones too...so i will install a stone inside to make them heavy!
The solder will destroy..will finish with the board!!!
Will be so ugly those paralleled (temporary test parts) thing under my board..
My God...he jumped as pop corn inside hot can...an now a days he continues to believe Black Gates sounds better...not knowing if the is really true or not.
Alike a Religion...a belief...not scientific.
You may conclude that the folk is idiot...i ensure you that he is not, he is a sample of a very common and large group of audiophiles that loves to fool themselves, you may see that those people can draw images, can paint things, they may be artist too...they love to dream...just dreamers not idiots.
Reality is something very flexible for them...something to be twisted, splited or made helical.
regards,
Carlos
Destroyer X; I really don' t understand all this negativ behavour...
If you can't hear the difference between different caps (and wires and mos-fets and opamps and so on) don't make fun with folks they can.
Still laughing about those brass binding posts?
Try your famous test - one channel with binding posts on amp and loudspeakers and at the other channel just solder speaker wires directly without binding posts.
Do you have wires and time?
Regards
If you can't hear the difference between different caps (and wires and mos-fets and opamps and so on) don't make fun with folks they can.
Still laughing about those brass binding posts?
Try your famous test - one channel with binding posts on amp and loudspeakers and at the other channel just solder speaker wires directly without binding posts.
Do you have wires and time?
Regards
All rigth Slovenia...i will test those ridiculus bind posts too.
The best argument those dreamers use against scientific aproached people is that:
-"The just cannot listen...they have not those golden ears"...hidden under those arguments they go perpetuating a lot of Myths... also Religion does the same... misteries!
relax...sorry if something could reach you..for sure had not your adress as a target...i even do not know you to make you a target... for sure an accident if someway i have hurted you...a matter of coincidence, just an accident.
Those ones do not agree with my foolishes, those will be more happy including me as "ignore"... and of couse not visit threads openned by that idiot! (me)
You can click over destroyer name and click on "ignore this one"..because things i use to say do not make you happy...why to read me...all i use to say may be foolishes to the ones had other beliefs..there are many beliefs, religions, Gods and capacitors too.
The one do not want to see stars.... better not to look at the sky.
People are different, and i can believe those dreamers can have some reason about what they say...my idea is to ask people, to invite people, to stimulate people, to produce tests and conclude things...not to believe in me...to believe in themselves.
And not to go with beliefs not confirmed...just Myths.
Slovenia word is beautifull makes pretty sound...reason why i prefer it than your name that is different to my tongue...i can damage my tongue pronuciating it...but Slovênia goes easy...pretty name..beautifull place as i could see surfing the Internet.
regards,
Carlos
The best argument those dreamers use against scientific aproached people is that:
-"The just cannot listen...they have not those golden ears"...hidden under those arguments they go perpetuating a lot of Myths... also Religion does the same... misteries!
relax...sorry if something could reach you..for sure had not your adress as a target...i even do not know you to make you a target... for sure an accident if someway i have hurted you...a matter of coincidence, just an accident.
Those ones do not agree with my foolishes, those will be more happy including me as "ignore"... and of couse not visit threads openned by that idiot! (me)
You can click over destroyer name and click on "ignore this one"..because things i use to say do not make you happy...why to read me...all i use to say may be foolishes to the ones had other beliefs..there are many beliefs, religions, Gods and capacitors too.
The one do not want to see stars.... better not to look at the sky.
People are different, and i can believe those dreamers can have some reason about what they say...my idea is to ask people, to invite people, to stimulate people, to produce tests and conclude things...not to believe in me...to believe in themselves.
And not to go with beliefs not confirmed...just Myths.
Slovenia word is beautifull makes pretty sound...reason why i prefer it than your name that is different to my tongue...i can damage my tongue pronuciating it...but Slovênia goes easy...pretty name..beautifull place as i could see surfing the Internet.
regards,
Carlos
Attachments
I made the test..no difference...was not copper, another metal i think...brass maybe
And i have installed the bind post inverted...because it came from the other side of the world...related Brasil of course.
Maybe some magnetic property..i do not know.
The wires were tested...very thin ones against very thick others..hehe...absoluttelly nothing different till 20 foot length (the normal maximum length used inside home...not a professional use).
I will try different post metals near future....because i do not believe they can produce any difference in sonics...so...i will check my ideas.
regards and thanks by the idea.
Bind posts do nothing to sonics, till today, in my sonic experience of audition.
Carlos
And i have installed the bind post inverted...because it came from the other side of the world...related Brasil of course.
Maybe some magnetic property..i do not know.
The wires were tested...very thin ones against very thick others..hehe...absoluttelly nothing different till 20 foot length (the normal maximum length used inside home...not a professional use).
I will try different post metals near future....because i do not believe they can produce any difference in sonics...so...i will check my ideas.
regards and thanks by the idea.
Bind posts do nothing to sonics, till today, in my sonic experience of audition.
Carlos
Attachments
Yes Igla...i have understood you...not a real bad feeling from your side..this is
very good...and warmed my heart.
I use to check condensers too...and i have perceived some differences too....most of them were capacitances errors related the value written over the capacitor...measured capacitance differences.
I am constructing things since 9 years old...and all those days i have beeing listening incredible things...i turn myself tired to believe and be surprised when checking the real world results.
Things stopped in my throat....blocked my neck...i have to say something...i cannot avoid.
regards,
Carlos
very good...and warmed my heart.
I use to check condensers too...and i have perceived some differences too....most of them were capacitances errors related the value written over the capacitor...measured capacitance differences.
I am constructing things since 9 years old...and all those days i have beeing listening incredible things...i turn myself tired to believe and be surprised when checking the real world results.
Things stopped in my throat....blocked my neck...i have to say something...i cannot avoid.
regards,
Carlos
Attachments
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