the idea of glass bowl enclosure is really nice!
some news from FR-"omni"/flooder camp:
first - an obviously Carlsson's "Cube" inspired AudioPro "Qube" speakers:
http://www.audiopro.se/media.php?id_file=527
they are not actually brand new as I have found a review of them from 2005 ( Qube - en fyrkantig liten högtalare med stort ljud - Component ) but I have just come across them, never heard of them before
in the review we can read that "the former Carlsson speaker designer Stephan Wänqvist is involved in - and it is not surprising either, since he now is director of research and development of AudioPro"
second - Yoshii Hiroyuki "Timedomain" licensed Sharp Aquos Home theater speakers:
ƒVƒAƒ^�[ƒ‰ƒbƒNƒVƒXƒeƒ€ �uBD-MPC70�v�bAQUOS ƒI�[ƒfƒBƒI�bƒAƒNƒIƒX�FƒVƒƒ�[ƒv
I hope that with such mass consumer oriented systems the idea will finally make its way into the mainstream
Sharp speakers look beautiful and at the same time they follow strictly the complete set of Timedomain design principles, just like original "Yoshii 9" loudspeakers
best!
graaf
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Hi Graaf,
If you're interested, PM your e-mail via the forum and I can send you the last patents Stig Carlsson filed. It was meant to be his crown juvels. Sadly he died before they were finished.
There are some people in Sweden that are building a three-way he patented. Patents has expired now so no problems copying them.
Peter
If you're interested, PM your e-mail via the forum and I can send you the last patents Stig Carlsson filed. It was meant to be his crown juvels. Sadly he died before they were finished.
There are some people in Sweden that are building a three-way he patented. Patents has expired now so no problems copying them.
Peter
yes please! thank You!
the mail is: graaf (at) wp.pl
can You post any details on those projects, links etc.?
best!
graaf
another picture of Audio Pro flooders
they surely are nice, getting a lot favourable reviews in the net, and they deliver all practical advantages of a flooder but I am sure that sound quality wise going two-way, bass reflex and on a budget has to mean that ultimate quality available from such a system just has to be lost
and while it is quite admirable that a mainstream speaker manufacturer like Audo Pro took up the concept at all I think that they were not confident in what they were doing, obviously fearing of commercial failure, therefore the realization of the concept took safe form of a speaker that is first of all cheap and safely advertised mainly as rear speaker for HC systems
I am sure that it is doing great job as rear in HC but the promise of the concept is not yet fulfilled
they surely are nice, getting a lot favourable reviews in the net, and they deliver all practical advantages of a flooder but I am sure that sound quality wise going two-way, bass reflex and on a budget has to mean that ultimate quality available from such a system just has to be lost
and while it is quite admirable that a mainstream speaker manufacturer like Audo Pro took up the concept at all I think that they were not confident in what they were doing, obviously fearing of commercial failure, therefore the realization of the concept took safe form of a speaker that is first of all cheap and safely advertised mainly as rear speaker for HC systems
I am sure that it is doing great job as rear in HC but the promise of the concept is not yet fulfilled
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You can find all relevant information about Carlson speakers here :
CarlssonPlanet.com • Everything about the Carlsson loudspeakers
CarlssonPlanet.com • Everything about the Carlsson loudspeakers
Thanks, Peter. Could be something for the next winter. Meanwhile the image of my system has stabilized in front of the speakers (it has quasi inverted). Not what I intended, but I can live with it for some time.
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Hi el' Ol,
I gather you got the patent and link from graaf?
It's odd but I was 7 years when I got the first contact with Carlsson speakers and that memory has stuck somehow. I have listened to many Carlsson models but never bought, despite that I liked the sound. What's impressing with them is the lower mids are 'connected' with the bass. Reduction of floor bounce mayhaps.
I think it's more a problem of peoples perception of how a speaker 'should' look like, that gets in the way of not buying a Carlsson. At least it was for me.
Anyway, I have located a pair in Wienna. The owner does not know which model it is, as they have been stored for ~15 years. I will try to wiggle them out of him, he is not willing to sell them yet, but I will persist. From his memory it sounds like it is OA2212.
Cheers,
Peter
I gather you got the patent and link from graaf?
It's odd but I was 7 years when I got the first contact with Carlsson speakers and that memory has stuck somehow. I have listened to many Carlsson models but never bought, despite that I liked the sound. What's impressing with them is the lower mids are 'connected' with the bass. Reduction of floor bounce mayhaps.
I think it's more a problem of peoples perception of how a speaker 'should' look like, that gets in the way of not buying a Carlsson. At least it was for me.
Anyway, I have located a pair in Wienna. The owner does not know which model it is, as they have been stored for ~15 years. I will try to wiggle them out of him, he is not willing to sell them yet, but I will persist. From his memory it sounds like it is OA2212.
Cheers,
Peter
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We are working on a 20cm wideband driver. Actually in my MPL i use it up to 8kHz and then cross over to a horn ribbon.
There will be a DIY version of that driver with neodymium magnet because the Alnico version will be very expensive. That driver will go to 15kHz so a tweeter is not absolutely neccesary for the pusist.
My supplier is working on a new basket and the magnet system so we need some more time.
There will be a DIY version of that driver with neodymium magnet because the Alnico version will be very expensive. That driver will go to 15kHz so a tweeter is not absolutely neccesary for the pusist.
My supplier is working on a new basket and the magnet system so we need some more time.
Bwb
Today i rebuild the Mini MPL. I was very happy with the sound but had an idea hpw i can increase power handling and bass extention. I am using now 3 drivers in a vertical row.
One widerange in inbetween two drivers that are smoothly blended over in the bass. I call that BWB for bass, wideband, bass. I works very well. I have now 3 times as much aerea in the bass and extention in my small baffle is -3dB at 100 Hz. Sensitivity is 87dB, impedance is 4 Ohm. I show some measurements and a picture. This is a phase coherent speaker and step response and squarewave reproduction is exeptional.
Today i rebuild the Mini MPL. I was very happy with the sound but had an idea hpw i can increase power handling and bass extention. I am using now 3 drivers in a vertical row.
One widerange in inbetween two drivers that are smoothly blended over in the bass. I call that BWB for bass, wideband, bass. I works very well. I have now 3 times as much aerea in the bass and extention in my small baffle is -3dB at 100 Hz. Sensitivity is 87dB, impedance is 4 Ohm. I show some measurements and a picture. This is a phase coherent speaker and step response and squarewave reproduction is exeptional.
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20cm wide range driver constuction
Hi there Joachim Gerhard: Is the DIY version of the single 20cm driver project expected to have a low cross over of around 175 hz and reasonably flat response to 15K hz. I had the feeling from your past comments that the driver would be constructed without mechanical enhancements ( wizzers, phase plugs, or other gizzimos )? regards, Michael
Hi there Joachim Gerhard: Is the DIY version of the single 20cm driver project expected to have a low cross over of around 175 hz and reasonably flat response to 15K hz. I had the feeling from your past comments that the driver would be constructed without mechanical enhancements ( wizzers, phase plugs, or other gizzimos )? regards, Michael
Hi Michael ! I use my prototype drivers down to 100Hz in a rather wide ( 1.2m) baffle.
Put in a conventional bass reflex box it can go down to 50Hz. It depends on the use.
We have control over the Q factor, so different versions could be envisioned for different purposes. If you want to use 175Hz as a crossover frequency we could use a stiffer suspension that whould give even higher sensitivity in the region of interest. We decided against a wither cone because it is a mechanical obstacle and it can not be avoided, even given an exotic shape or aditional phaseplug, that the wither cone works in antiphase over a certain area of the spectrum. If you do high resolution measurement even of the best examples with withercones you see an energy hole at around 7kHz or there abouts. Sadly, height information is encoded there and you see two different events in the time domain. A step response measurement is the easiest way to show the effect. An honest representation of frequency-time is then imposible, even if you like the subjective result.
Put in a conventional bass reflex box it can go down to 50Hz. It depends on the use.
We have control over the Q factor, so different versions could be envisioned for different purposes. If you want to use 175Hz as a crossover frequency we could use a stiffer suspension that whould give even higher sensitivity in the region of interest. We decided against a wither cone because it is a mechanical obstacle and it can not be avoided, even given an exotic shape or aditional phaseplug, that the wither cone works in antiphase over a certain area of the spectrum. If you do high resolution measurement even of the best examples with withercones you see an energy hole at around 7kHz or there abouts. Sadly, height information is encoded there and you see two different events in the time domain. A step response measurement is the easiest way to show the effect. An honest representation of frequency-time is then imposible, even if you like the subjective result.
I have build an alternative woofer system to my big MPL system. The LAT woofers in my X - Dipole are not made any more so an alternative is needed. I use 2 M - Dipols now with 4 x 30cm Peerless SLS woofers. I use equalisation to extend the response to 20Hz.
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I made some parts upgrades to the MPL. As tweeter cap i use now a combination of 3 different caps of different sizes in parallel. I arived at the values and types after month of listening.No computer simulation for the MPL, just intuition and experience. Of cause i measure in the end but i am surprised how well i can pull the old tricks before we had computer based measurements. Usually my estimates corelate very well with my measurements. This reduces compression in the treble much and the sound is silky smooth with still a lot of energy. I upgraded the little ferite powder coil in front of the wideband driver that had worked admirably to a big air coil with baked litz wire. I think it sounds more detailed without artificial edge. The biggest improvement is the new coil parallel to the tweeter. I had used a normal sized air coil that i had damped with putty. The new coil designed and hand made by Jürgen Hensler ( the guy that makes the incredibe JH88 cables ) has a DC impedance of only 0.0064 Ohms. He aceaved that by using a very expensive core material that has an AL value of 7000 and is optimised for the audio range until 100kHz. That material is nearly imposible to get and very expensive nowerdays because most ferite materials are optimised for frequencies over 100kHz for switch mode PSU´s and have virtually no magnetisaton in the audio range. The wire is also Litzwire of high diameter wound in a snail pattern and rigidly fixed to the core.
I think the low loss in that coil is pivotal for good sound of real ribbon tweeters. At lower frequencies they are nearly a short and a coil with a conventinal DC value of say 0.5 Ohm does not maintain the theoretical shape of the desired rolloff.
The widebands have also been reconed because my son had destroyed one surround by acident by misusing one MPL baffle as stand fore his musical notes when he practised the Frensh Horn in front of them. I was p.... at the beginning but the engineer that builds the widebands for me made an improvement in centerig the coils so i think after some days of heavy use ( the wideband sounds a bit rough without running in ) the midrange sounds even cleaner and open then before.
I think the low loss in that coil is pivotal for good sound of real ribbon tweeters. At lower frequencies they are nearly a short and a coil with a conventinal DC value of say 0.5 Ohm does not maintain the theoretical shape of the desired rolloff.
The widebands have also been reconed because my son had destroyed one surround by acident by misusing one MPL baffle as stand fore his musical notes when he practised the Frensh Horn in front of them. I was p.... at the beginning but the engineer that builds the widebands for me made an improvement in centerig the coils so i think after some days of heavy use ( the wideband sounds a bit rough without running in ) the midrange sounds even cleaner and open then before.
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I am in a process to fit the bass crossovers into the Mini MPL. The additional drivers will extend the output to 100Hz. In simulation i got 8dB more there. This is not a conventional baffle step compensation because the baffle is already quite wide at 90cm. It is more like raising the amout of aerea at lower frequencies. The crossover point is quite steep and i included a notch filter and an impedance compensation so this is a major efford. I think i can finish up in the next two hours and then i will listen a bit.