No such thing as a dumb question, I'd also be interested in hearing how this experiment turned out.
For my reference monitors I used 1in thick XPS home insulation sheathing foam and glued 3/16in thick Sureply sub floor plywood on it with liquid nails. Very stiff strong and lightweight. 3M 77 Fastack would work too but liquid nails (no VOC) provides constrained layer damping. The composite has a dull dead sound when you tap it.
Ive made the little single version..I have to say it sounds pretty good being it's small size
I do not like cutting foam board.with a razor knife.I did it on a small tablesaw and sanded off the fuzzys...I'm left wondering what the TC9FD would sound like in a Voigt pipe or transmission line design...if a design exists I'd like to know.
I do not like cutting foam board.with a razor knife.I did it on a small tablesaw and sanded off the fuzzys...I'm left wondering what the TC9FD would sound like in a Voigt pipe or transmission line design...if a design exists I'd like to know.
The Karlsonator is a TL - more advanced than most simple tapered, straight or Voigt pipes. The Karlsonator is actually a mass loaded tapered quarterwave transmission line (ML-TQWT) with an aperiodic output coupler and acoustic lens. Simply put, you won't get better sound out of Voigt or simple tapered TL. The biggest problem with other boxes is baffle step loss. Notice that the Karlsonator doesn't need BSC to sound balanced.
The TC9FD can be used in a Cornu, BIB, a BLH (FH-lite), a MLTL (Tabaq), and can probably work in others. It definitely works in a front loaded horn very well. Look at the index on post 1 in the Foam Core speaker thread for more ideas.
The TC9FD can be used in a Cornu, BIB, a BLH (FH-lite), a MLTL (Tabaq), and can probably work in others. It definitely works in a front loaded horn very well. Look at the index on post 1 in the Foam Core speaker thread for more ideas.
I just finished an active 0.4 Karlsonator.
It is made of cardboard....a banana box actually.
Originally i started to recycle a completely white box, but didn't finish the build within one night.
Next day i was on the weekly market to get some fresh food and came across nice looking banana boxes printed with wood-imitation.
So my enclosure ended up being white from the inside and most parts doubled up with the banana box material.
Damn, a lot of hot glue is within the finished box.
The box looks a bit asymmetric behind the wings.
The baffle is placed a bit weird and it looks like the driver isn't perfectly centered on it.
I used a tiny TDA8932 board as amp, summed the signal to mono via two 10K resistors and added an A10K pot which was the only one with solder lugs i had flying around.
A DC-plug, two RCA-connectors and the pot are placed on the back of the box.
I like it bass-heavy and is was no fair comparison with the system i listened right before.
As it is the Mini-Karlsonator can not hold up a comparison to the TC9FD-wall-mount-AMLTL that impressed me again when i visited my sister yesterday.
I'm not sure about the sound yet....the driver was unused so far, so i give it a few days.
If it doesn't work my bad workmanship has to be blamed in first instance as i exhausted all tolerances.
The build was great fun and i learned a lot.
I have a few ideas what i would do differently next time.
...and there will be a next time.
It is made of cardboard....a banana box actually.
Originally i started to recycle a completely white box, but didn't finish the build within one night.
Next day i was on the weekly market to get some fresh food and came across nice looking banana boxes printed with wood-imitation.
So my enclosure ended up being white from the inside and most parts doubled up with the banana box material.
Damn, a lot of hot glue is within the finished box.
The box looks a bit asymmetric behind the wings.
The baffle is placed a bit weird and it looks like the driver isn't perfectly centered on it.
I used a tiny TDA8932 board as amp, summed the signal to mono via two 10K resistors and added an A10K pot which was the only one with solder lugs i had flying around.
A DC-plug, two RCA-connectors and the pot are placed on the back of the box.
I like it bass-heavy and is was no fair comparison with the system i listened right before.
As it is the Mini-Karlsonator can not hold up a comparison to the TC9FD-wall-mount-AMLTL that impressed me again when i visited my sister yesterday.
I'm not sure about the sound yet....the driver was unused so far, so i give it a few days.
If it doesn't work my bad workmanship has to be blamed in first instance as i exhausted all tolerances.
The build was great fun and i learned a lot.
I have a few ideas what i would do differently next time.
...and there will be a next time.
The wall mount MLTL actually hits 30Hz with room gain so it can sound very deep. Not a lot of SPL but makes you think there may be a sub somewhere. The miniK really is good for 60-70Hz but midrange and dispersion is very nice. Getting a good box with bracing makes a big difference. Try it with stiff triple ply cardboard. If you want bass then 0.53x with dual TC9 is better.
I'm in the process of making another K'nator.
This time with push-pull arrangement.
Drivers are ones I pulled out of dead Klipsch Promedia speakers.
I just made it big enough to accommodate four 2 inch drivers(comes to about 0.48 scale).
Don't even know the correct specs for them but since I had eight at hand... I just crossed my fingers, and... hey, it's not bad!
If anything, I feel that the push-pull orientation definitely brings cleaner sound.
Anyway, would it be possible to incorporate djk's PPSL slot into any of the K boxes?
I know PPSL has limitation in the upper frequencies, but as a designated bass only device...?
This time with push-pull arrangement.
Drivers are ones I pulled out of dead Klipsch Promedia speakers.
I just made it big enough to accommodate four 2 inch drivers(comes to about 0.48 scale).
Don't even know the correct specs for them but since I had eight at hand... I just crossed my fingers, and... hey, it's not bad!
If anything, I feel that the push-pull orientation definitely brings cleaner sound.
Anyway, would it be possible to incorporate djk's PPSL slot into any of the K boxes?
I know PPSL has limitation in the upper frequencies, but as a designated bass only device...?
Attachments
Bolex:
Very nice!
You may want to try diamond orientation with cone faces along middle and two magnet outs on sides behind wings. So cook you are trying all sorts of orientations.
I think a 3x3 (9 total) with Bose 901 1ohm drivers all in series would be very cool too. Probably same as a 12in driver - in full size K'nator 12.
PPSL is 6th order band pass, and with K would actually be like an XKi with one driver in and one driver out. So I guess it's already been done and works quite well.
Very nice!
You may want to try diamond orientation with cone faces along middle and two magnet outs on sides behind wings. So cook you are trying all sorts of orientations.
I think a 3x3 (9 total) with Bose 901 1ohm drivers all in series would be very cool too. Probably same as a 12in driver - in full size K'nator 12.
PPSL is 6th order band pass, and with K would actually be like an XKi with one driver in and one driver out. So I guess it's already been done and works quite well.
xrk,
Thanks for the suggestions!
The diamond shaped orientation is a clever idea.
Good thing I made one speaker first!
I made holes for the second one in the diamond shape today. I'll post pics later on...
As for the PPSL - so I can just make push-pull XKi with two drivers, and technically it will be the same, huh? Kool!
When trying that, do I just double up the size? (for example, if I double up the measurements you provided for my 8 incher,would it work?
(maybe this question is for the XKi thread...)
And the 9 driver suggestion - the reason I tried this quad driver K'nator in the first place was reading post number 5 in this thread, where IG81 mentions using 3x3 array of TC9F's.
Although it'll be fun, I don't think it will be easy locating 1 ohm drivers with the right spec here in Korea.
Nevertheless, with the success of this project, I think I'll be making another push-pull K'nator with a quad of 3 inchers.
Can you please take a look if this driver is usable? I will attach the TS...
Thanks for the suggestions!
The diamond shaped orientation is a clever idea.
Good thing I made one speaker first!
I made holes for the second one in the diamond shape today. I'll post pics later on...
As for the PPSL - so I can just make push-pull XKi with two drivers, and technically it will be the same, huh? Kool!
When trying that, do I just double up the size? (for example, if I double up the measurements you provided for my 8 incher,would it work?
(maybe this question is for the XKi thread...)
And the 9 driver suggestion - the reason I tried this quad driver K'nator in the first place was reading post number 5 in this thread, where IG81 mentions using 3x3 array of TC9F's.
Although it'll be fun, I don't think it will be easy locating 1 ohm drivers with the right spec here in Korea.
Nevertheless, with the success of this project, I think I'll be making another push-pull K'nator with a quad of 3 inchers.
Can you please take a look if this driver is usable? I will attach the TS...
Attachments
Attempt #2
Going to attempt another build on the 0.53x. Previous time resulted in zero bass definition. Prevailing theory is collapse of quarter wave due to insufficient build quality. Other than taking my time, any tips on foam core 0.53x v2?
My previous method was measuring with tape measure, marking with pen, and cutting with utility knife. I found the tape measure method difficult due to the lack of a proper straight-edge. I also found cutting a straight line with the utility knife difficult (and destructive to my now "weathered" coffee table). Any tips on ways to get nice, clean, properly dimensioned cuts would be appreciated.
I'm motivated to try again because A) I have 4 Vifas and B), the dispersion/sound-staging of my less-than-perfect 0.53x is quite remarkable, so if I can get this elusive bass definition sealed up (pun intended), I would be delighted.
Going to attempt another build on the 0.53x. Previous time resulted in zero bass definition. Prevailing theory is collapse of quarter wave due to insufficient build quality. Other than taking my time, any tips on foam core 0.53x v2?
My previous method was measuring with tape measure, marking with pen, and cutting with utility knife. I found the tape measure method difficult due to the lack of a proper straight-edge. I also found cutting a straight line with the utility knife difficult (and destructive to my now "weathered" coffee table). Any tips on ways to get nice, clean, properly dimensioned cuts would be appreciated.
I'm motivated to try again because A) I have 4 Vifas and B), the dispersion/sound-staging of my less-than-perfect 0.53x is quite remarkable, so if I can get this elusive bass definition sealed up (pun intended), I would be delighted.
The trick is to find a good long (>30in) straight edge to use to cut the main width strips that make up the speaker. I use a sheet of masonite, the edge is fairly straight and it doesn't dull my razor like a metal straight edge. Otherwise a drywall straight edge is good. Use a utility knife with break off tips and use a fresh tip. You can use anything to set your width, say 8.00in just make sure it is consistent. I actually transfer the dimension over to a strip of foam core and mark it with a pencil as my "width gauge". Use that to to set your width with a pencil mark. Then use the long straight edge and line up marks, leave room for width of blade. Cut lightly at first enough to pierce paper. Then follow with 2 or 3 more strokes to get through. Cut on top of firm Berber carpet floor and use your knees to hold masonite straight edge steady while drawing the razor in light pressure strokes. That is my secret for making consistent width strips for building. If the width is consistent within +/-0.5mm you are assured of a great glue seal and the box will look clean and square.
Then when gluiing, use a piece of 90 deg foam core as a right angle gauge to ensure a 90 deg angle before glue hardens in 45 seconds.
If all your pieces are within 0.5mm width accuracy, you will have no problem getting PVA or tightbond to make the final capping operation leak proof. If it looks uneven before gluing, try trimming or building up with hot melt glue.
Good luck!
Then when gluiing, use a piece of 90 deg foam core as a right angle gauge to ensure a 90 deg angle before glue hardens in 45 seconds.
If all your pieces are within 0.5mm width accuracy, you will have no problem getting PVA or tightbond to make the final capping operation leak proof. If it looks uneven before gluing, try trimming or building up with hot melt glue.
Good luck!
K'nator for FE103SOL
Scale height and depth by 0.44x and width by 0.55x (kind of squat lookking) but gets a solid 89dB sensitivity for bass with f3 of 61Hz. No BSC needed.
A standard 0.53x can work but will be closer to 87dB overall with a droop and f3 of 55Hz.
Here is 0.44x x 0.55x wide:
Scale height and depth by 0.44x and width by 0.55x (kind of squat lookking) but gets a solid 89dB sensitivity for bass with f3 of 61Hz. No BSC needed.
A standard 0.53x can work but will be closer to 87dB overall with a droop and f3 of 55Hz.
Here is 0.44x x 0.55x wide:
Attachments
Cool. I had a few minutes today so I rescaled the drawing per your suggestion for FE103SOL.
Link to full size file. Karlsonator S.O.L.
Download under "more". It is full scale and should print on two 11x17 sheets if you have a big printer.
I had a few minutes today so I rescaled the drawing per your suggestion for FE103SOL.
Link to full size file. Karlsonator S.O.L.
Download under "more". It is full scale and should print on two 11x17 sheets if you have a big printer.
Thanks GregB! That is most useful - and this is a rather interesting driver because I think all those resonant peaks up high will get smoother out nicely by the K aperture. The polar response will be blended and smoother too. This might be a special box given the relatively high sensitivity.
I just realized that the pair of RS 40-1197's that Godzilla gave me are very similar to the FE-103 SOL. The RS's are labeled FE-103. I just measured the TS with DATS and got this:
Memory 1 Notes:
f(s) = 101.61 Hz
Q(ms) = 4.143
V(as) = 3.11 liters (0.110 cubic feet)
n(0) = 0.63 %
M(ms) = 2.80 grams
R(e) = 7.62 Ohms
Q(es) = 0.493
SPL = 90.10 dB SPL 1W/1m
C(ms) = 0.88 mm/N
Piston Diameter = 80.0 mm
Z(max) = 71.67 Ohms
Q(ts) = 0.440
L(e) = 0.279 mH at 10kHz
SPL = 90.31 dB SPL 2.83 Vrms
BL = 5.26
Memory 2 Notes:
f(s) = 92.86 Hz
Q(ms) = 4.041
V(as) = 3.19 liters (0.113 cubic feet)
n(0) = 0.56 %
M(ms) = 3.27 grams
R(e) = 7.78 Ohms
Q(es) = 0.438
SPL = 89.56 dB SPL 1W/1m
C(ms) = 0.90 mm/N
Piston Diameter = 80.0 mm
Z(max) = 79.59 Ohms
Q(ts) = 0.395
L(e) = 0.289 mH at 10kHz
SPL = 89.68 dB SPL 2.83 Vrms
BL = 5.82
Whereas the SOL has this listed:
I think I will build myself some FE-103 K'nators! 13in tall x 8.38in wide x 7.16in deep - a pretty compact bookshelf speaker size. 90dB and -3dB at 61Hz is not too bad.
Memory 1 Notes:
f(s) = 101.61 Hz
Q(ms) = 4.143
V(as) = 3.11 liters (0.110 cubic feet)
n(0) = 0.63 %
M(ms) = 2.80 grams
R(e) = 7.62 Ohms
Q(es) = 0.493
SPL = 90.10 dB SPL 1W/1m
C(ms) = 0.88 mm/N
Piston Diameter = 80.0 mm
Z(max) = 71.67 Ohms
Q(ts) = 0.440
L(e) = 0.279 mH at 10kHz
SPL = 90.31 dB SPL 2.83 Vrms
BL = 5.26
Memory 2 Notes:
f(s) = 92.86 Hz
Q(ms) = 4.041
V(as) = 3.19 liters (0.113 cubic feet)
n(0) = 0.56 %
M(ms) = 3.27 grams
R(e) = 7.78 Ohms
Q(es) = 0.438
SPL = 89.56 dB SPL 1W/1m
C(ms) = 0.90 mm/N
Piston Diameter = 80.0 mm
Z(max) = 79.59 Ohms
Q(ts) = 0.395
L(e) = 0.289 mH at 10kHz
SPL = 89.68 dB SPL 2.83 Vrms
BL = 5.82
Whereas the SOL has this listed:
I think I will build myself some FE-103 K'nators! 13in tall x 8.38in wide x 7.16in deep - a pretty compact bookshelf speaker size. 90dB and -3dB at 61Hz is not too bad.
The 10F/8424 is a reference quality driver that has about as flat a response as imaginable. By putting it in a karlsonator, you will be compromising its "reference flat" response. There are other drivers that will give you better performance in a small Karlsonator for much less. Equivalent and great sounding would be the Faital Pro 3FE22 or 3FE25, Dayton RS100-4, or Vifa TC9FD or TG9FD. The closest to the 10F would be the $22 TG9FD.
For that - make the 0.40x Karsonator - plans linked in post 1.
For that - make the 0.40x Karsonator - plans linked in post 1.