No idea what it was but it was a very small cabinet. I didn't get a chance to learn more.
Do you know his crossover approach?
That was a great sounding coax setup! Very impressive.
Those solid hardwood Japanese 300hz horns likely weigh about 70 lbs each. Two man lift. They are SOLID WOOD.
Everything resonates though. Maybe it is best to pick a material that does so in a pleasing, consonant manner. That would probably count out MDF but in practice MDF isn't so bad.
Here's a vid of some good old wood, the WE 12A and 13A. These are made of 1" thick poplar. You can also see a pair of GIP wood horns, milled out of solid cherry...a favorite wood in Japanese horn construction. The good looking white guy in the blue sports coat is yours truly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAhaKcnfBig
Those wood 1505s are beautiful. I'd take a pr of those!
I ordered a pair of wood horns from Artluthe in Montreal to go ontop my Onkens. They are less costly because they require sanding and finishing. They match that exposed baltic birch! I auditioned them and they are far better (smooth, natural, but not as efficient) than the metal 811 or 511b altecs.
Here is the link for those interested: http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649172748-wood-horn-kit-for-tad-jbl-radian-faital-etc/
I've long had a bit of fascination for the Japanese version of our hobby, and since you mentioned making wood horns, and in that spirit here is one of the coolest diy horn sites I have yet found:
Yuichi's Audio Lab.
Yuichi's Audio Lab.
Yep, I've modernised the Yuichi using CAD/CNC.
Have tested this against 511/811/8005 plus 288 drivers and Radian Be drivers.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/242262-pics-diy-yuichi-290hz-wood-horn.html
Andrew
Have tested this against 511/811/8005 plus 288 drivers and Radian Be drivers.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/242262-pics-diy-yuichi-290hz-wood-horn.html
Andrew
My way of joining into the fray
Tell us more about components. I see a cool in wall PP slot loaded sub. I also see a PP slot loaded sub on casters. A pleated diaphragm tweeter in a horn and some sort of Fostex or Lowther in a bi mid horn.
The in wall sub is cool - why did you not flip on driver magnet in so that you can reduce mechanical hysteresis induced second order harmonic distortion?
While I am on a historical trip, and more to the original 604 theme of this thread, here's a pic of the original ancestor coax speaker, designed by WE in the early 1930s.
You can find a pic of a pair of these at the early Fletcher WE stereo experiments at the Academy of Music in Philly (1931-1932).
This monstrosity uses a TA4151 woofer with a hole drilled though it, into which a WE555 screws on. The 555 shoots though a multicell horn on front, while the bass is routed though a renentrant horn. All field coil and handmade by a highly skilled sheet metal craftsman. Probably a prototype or experimental unit.
Interesting, non?
This system also comes in a larger form which I believe uses a TA4181 18" but I'd have to check on that part. I never opened the big one up.
You can find a pic of a pair of these at the early Fletcher WE stereo experiments at the Academy of Music in Philly (1931-1932).
This monstrosity uses a TA4151 woofer with a hole drilled though it, into which a WE555 screws on. The 555 shoots though a multicell horn on front, while the bass is routed though a renentrant horn. All field coil and handmade by a highly skilled sheet metal craftsman. Probably a prototype or experimental unit.
Interesting, non?
This system also comes in a larger form which I believe uses a TA4181 18" but I'd have to check on that part. I never opened the big one up.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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+1 30mm MDF will have the same stiffness, more damping, and more mass. It should be fine IMO, as long as the cabinets aren't going to be moved much. I'd still be inclined to put locking wheels on them.
Even so I prefer plywood for my own use, as MDF makes pretty nasty dust. BTW, any plywood grade that doesn't have voids will work. I built a full size Ultraflex cabinet out of void free fir plywood, and had no problems. You should be careful to not use anything with the potential of loose knots inside the plys. They will rattle and buzz and ruin the cabinet.
The in wall, infinite baffle is a push-push to cancel out any vibrations. I built that back in 2010 before I was introduced to the concept of ppsl, which,
the mid bass (woofers) are. The ppsl cabinets are made out of double thick
3/4 mdf for a total of 1.5 inches thick. That's why they are on casters.
Double thick mdf construction is the only thing sort of generic to this thread.
The large round red horn is loaded with a Tang Band w8-1772. The large tweeter on top is the Stage Accompany SA 8535. All the drivers except the subwoofer section are time aligned. It's an active 4 way using a custom built
analogue 18db/oct crossover. Subwoofer amps are Crown K2's, Bryston 7B's run the mid-bass, a custom tube amp runs the mid range, and a highly modified Parasound HCA-1000 powers the ribbons. The subwoofer drivers (eight units, 4 oppsed pairs) are Acoustic Elegance IB-15's loaded into approx
500 cubic feet. The mid-bass each contain a pair of Eminence Definimax 4012-HO.
Thank you kindly, for your interest !
Was it the same setup as in this article? 6moons industry features: Jean Hiraga
The time frame seems to fit...
Though it isn't an Onken style cabinet.
Yeah that is the basic Hiraga implementation. Never said it was an Onken box but it seems a lot more useful as a home speaker for many of us.
The linked review was full of generalizations, posturing, and dense wordplay but didn't say much about the technical aspects of the design.
I'd be real interested in the crossover, which in the speakers I saw in Munich was a good-sized handful of fancy parts hanging off of the rear terminals in ghetto fabulous fashion, no snazzy hardwood box.
It produced an extremely coherent sound which I never was never able to achieve with 604s, even though I tried Mastering Labs crossovers and a slew of DIY attempts. Bass was quite huge for such a modest cab. They were lively, exciting, and smooth.
The problem is not getting bass out of a 604, but rather getting the horn and cone to blend, as discussed above and elsewhere ad infinitum.
I seldom hear anything that really impresses me at audio shows. Last thing was the KEF LS50 and I still need a pair of those, but Hiraga's 604 was a standout. For my Altec loving ears, it was something special.
The linked review was full of generalizations, posturing, and dense wordplay but didn't say much about the technical aspects of the design.
I'd be real interested in the crossover, which in the speakers I saw in Munich was a good-sized handful of fancy parts hanging off of the rear terminals in ghetto fabulous fashion, no snazzy hardwood box.
It produced an extremely coherent sound which I never was never able to achieve with 604s, even though I tried Mastering Labs crossovers and a slew of DIY attempts. Bass was quite huge for such a modest cab. They were lively, exciting, and smooth.
The problem is not getting bass out of a 604, but rather getting the horn and cone to blend, as discussed above and elsewhere ad infinitum.
I seldom hear anything that really impresses me at audio shows. Last thing was the KEF LS50 and I still need a pair of those, but Hiraga's 604 was a standout. For my Altec loving ears, it was something special.
I figured that was it and did notice you weren't calling it an Onken.
That review isn't of any help to figure out anything, I agree.
I do recall GM talking about this particular enclosure, or was it someone else, long ago.
That's why I posted the picture, maybe someone remembers more details.
That review isn't of any help to figure out anything, I agree.
I do recall GM talking about this particular enclosure, or was it someone else, long ago.
That's why I posted the picture, maybe someone remembers more details.
I looked back at references to the Hiraga enclosure. It was probably the entries by LineSource that I remembered. He was fascinated at that time by that enclosure with the bottom slot port.
No idea about the crossover Hiraga used.
The attached data contains the info that used to be available on Mr. Jean Hiraga's site indicating a crossover at 1.85 kHz. (found on the web archive version of Hiraga.com)
Thanks for that, although he is stingy with technical details there. A brochure is probably not the right place for intelligent discussion anyway.
Fairly high high pass which could help with the horn. Getting a 604 woofer to play up to ~1.9kc defeated me though. I was listening for such problem when I heard Hiraga's system and didn't hear any.
I used his 500hz crossover with my 1505B/Onken and that had a HF shelf and a peak above 6k built in. Worked great. I suspect he spent a lot of time dialing in the EQ on his 604 xover.
I finally met Mr. Hiraga at ETF last year. I should have asked him about this. He is in business but he is the kind of good guy who will throw DIYers a bone.
Fairly high high pass which could help with the horn. Getting a 604 woofer to play up to ~1.9kc defeated me though. I was listening for such problem when I heard Hiraga's system and didn't hear any.
I used his 500hz crossover with my 1505B/Onken and that had a HF shelf and a peak above 6k built in. Worked great. I suspect he spent a lot of time dialing in the EQ on his 604 xover.
I finally met Mr. Hiraga at ETF last year. I should have asked him about this. He is in business but he is the kind of good guy who will throw DIYers a bone.
I read somewhere on a french forum that the internal design of the cabinet is not simple... I imagined the load was a sort of Onken firering towards the back or near a 1/4 wave due to the good mid-bass and upper low-end as many noticed... but who knows ! maybe as simple as a Proac cabinet firering towards the floor?)
Goal of JH was to divide by two the volume of the box... I believe that the cabinet is also a part of the good result. "Unluckilly" for diyers, secret of the design is well keeped and even in french sites where this speaker made the buzz as well !
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