analog_sa said:
So that's what I've doing wrong, there like footballers,
once they change teams, you don't know how they'll play.
(contact cleaning is a much more sensible arguement, with a
whole gamut of hard evidence to back it up, I've no problem
with descriptions of differences, just the ascribed causes)
sreten.
I Said It Already............
"(contact cleaning is a much more sensible arguement, with a
whole gamut of hard evidence to back it up, I've no problem
with descriptions of differences, just the ascribed causes)"
"I am suspicious that the physicall un-plugging and re-plugging of the phono cables is causing part of the sonic effect observed here."
Contact cleaning/disturbance is what I meant here, not disturbance of the cables.
Eric.
"(contact cleaning is a much more sensible arguement, with a
whole gamut of hard evidence to back it up, I've no problem
with descriptions of differences, just the ascribed causes)"
"I am suspicious that the physicall un-plugging and re-plugging of the phono cables is causing part of the sonic effect observed here."
Contact cleaning/disturbance is what I meant here, not disturbance of the cables.
Eric.
Many demagnetizers can be used by leaving the cartridge itself in the headshell, etc., and just plugging the phono leads into the demagnetizer. If plugging and unplugging the RCA cables produces no noticeable effect, but then plugging the unit into the demagentizer and doing the dirty deed does show an effect afterward.... well what do you say to that?
I mean, I am a skeptic too..I do try to stick to known answers before charging off in all directions after metaphysical windmills.
I have done the above test and found it to to be true. Having gone after contacts in systems before... I first thought the issue could be the contacts. After the test above..well...
It is not subtle. I have cleaned phono contacts before and this is a totally different beast in terms of sonic gains/differences realized.
I don't believe for one second that there is any kind of snake oil here, but I also have every single person I know of who has ever used a low output MC or MC period fully believe in and use demagnetizers if they are about, due to the sonic differences that are realized.
There is too much evidence to the contrary. If it works, then there must be a simple answer. (All answers are simple. It's the question that is hard) If all the simple answers have been gone after and are proven to be erroneous, then the next plausible answer must be chased down.
I apologize for the preachyness.
Also, this is DIY audio, me thinks. We may be smart enough to pusue and set the proper loading if we play with plugging our MC units into a soundcard.
I mean, I am a skeptic too..I do try to stick to known answers before charging off in all directions after metaphysical windmills.
I have done the above test and found it to to be true. Having gone after contacts in systems before... I first thought the issue could be the contacts. After the test above..well...
It is not subtle. I have cleaned phono contacts before and this is a totally different beast in terms of sonic gains/differences realized.
I don't believe for one second that there is any kind of snake oil here, but I also have every single person I know of who has ever used a low output MC or MC period fully believe in and use demagnetizers if they are about, due to the sonic differences that are realized.
There is too much evidence to the contrary. If it works, then there must be a simple answer. (All answers are simple. It's the question that is hard) If all the simple answers have been gone after and are proven to be erroneous, then the next plausible answer must be chased down.
I apologize for the preachyness.
Also, this is DIY audio, me thinks. We may be smart enough to pusue and set the proper loading if we play with plugging our MC units into a soundcard.
KBK said:
Simply demagnetisation is a ridiculous explanation, and said unit
does not do what is says on the tin, once you get to this point
practical cynisism kicks in, if the makers claim it works a certain
way that is palpably untrue, what could someone do with a
product where they actually understand the cause and effect ?
And you need a double blind listening test to show that
the observed effect you report is not due to expectation.
Its very easy to show with double blind tests the effect of
expectation when its not presented as such, people will
quite happily describe an effect due to a phenomenon
explained to them, that simply doesn't exist in the test.
sreten.Double blind listening tests are not always right BECAUSE of the psychological pressures and weighting. The difficulty always lies in doing double blind the right way. And even then, the answers that come out of it are nowhere near being anything like gospel.
Once you understand the human function to a high enough degree... get back to me. A rude thing to say, to be sure, but what I am saying is there is more we don't know than what we do. And the universe will probably always be that way for us. More specifically.. well like that ---within your lifetime.
Go ahead. be a skeptic.
Specs don't make amps sound good. Thinking engineers and designers do.
Double blind is not the only way, it is merely the one you desire to use here.
Remember. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A FACT.
pipe>>>smoke.
My business partners and friends do tell me some things. And one of those things they tell me is, to stop getting involved in arguments with people who won't listen. Pugnacious, I guess.
Me? I look at the skies every day. It's the only way to get somewhere...at least for me.
All I'm trying to get out of this.. is the waveform traced..and then share it amongst us who are well versed with the fact that it does something. Something good.
I'm not here to debate a given person's particular stance on reality, or what is ---or what is not. Nor am I here to put up with some telling me to 'prove' something and then have them tell me how they want their particular input served up. Not something for me to worry about, debate about, or bother with.
One of my favorite sayings: Lead.. Follow, or get the hell out of the way.
I realize your remarks are aimed at getting input in a fashion that you accept, but that is not something I worry about. Or am I even willing to look at. I'm beyond the point of needing or desiring to do things that way. I trust my methods and understandings. Otherwise I would get nowhere. I don't need to - or desire to conform to another.
Nor am I trying to be rude here, or be nasty.
ok?
Once you understand the human function to a high enough degree... get back to me. A rude thing to say, to be sure, but what I am saying is there is more we don't know than what we do. And the universe will probably always be that way for us. More specifically.. well like that ---within your lifetime.
Go ahead. be a skeptic.
Specs don't make amps sound good. Thinking engineers and designers do.
Double blind is not the only way, it is merely the one you desire to use here.
Remember. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A FACT.
pipe>>>smoke.
My business partners and friends do tell me some things. And one of those things they tell me is, to stop getting involved in arguments with people who won't listen. Pugnacious, I guess.
Me? I look at the skies every day. It's the only way to get somewhere...at least for me.
All I'm trying to get out of this.. is the waveform traced..and then share it amongst us who are well versed with the fact that it does something. Something good.
I'm not here to debate a given person's particular stance on reality, or what is ---or what is not. Nor am I here to put up with some telling me to 'prove' something and then have them tell me how they want their particular input served up. Not something for me to worry about, debate about, or bother with.
One of my favorite sayings: Lead.. Follow, or get the hell out of the way.
I realize your remarks are aimed at getting input in a fashion that you accept, but that is not something I worry about. Or am I even willing to look at. I'm beyond the point of needing or desiring to do things that way. I trust my methods and understandings. Otherwise I would get nowhere. I don't need to - or desire to conform to another.
Nor am I trying to be rude here, or be nasty.
ok?
Well your quite entitled to your own opinions, misguided or not.
You seem to be quite happy to expound theories that have no
sensible basis in reality and then when challenged imply that
the questioner has no grip on a reasonable life attitude as a
defense, more to the point you use it as an attack, claiming
defense.
This is a forum. Go somewhere else with an attitude like that.
My remarks are one line of thinking that I don't necessarily agree
with that you are incapable of dealing with without getting personal.
I take great exception to your presumptions about my attitude,
and your pompous incoherent self justifications.
sreten.
You seem to be quite happy to expound theories that have no
sensible basis in reality and then when challenged imply that
the questioner has no grip on a reasonable life attitude as a
defense, more to the point you use it as an attack, claiming
defense.
This is a forum. Go somewhere else with an attitude like that.
My remarks are one line of thinking that I don't necessarily agree
with that you are incapable of dealing with without getting personal.
I take great exception to your presumptions about my attitude,
and your pompous incoherent self justifications.
sreten.
Guys, let's cool the rhetoric a bit and keep it on topic. If you want to discuss the merits and demerits of DBT, you can start a separate thread, as long as you keep the discussion civil. It will be the 10,546th such discussion in the couple of years I've been posting here.
Am I allowed to say "cobblers" to demagnetising devices as described?
Demagnetising anything needs a lot of energy and a close flux linkage. You just can't achieve that via the coils of a cartridge and any sensible current. What you can do, though, is to heat the (very temperature sensitive) bearing of the stylus cantilever, and that will immediately and significantly change the frequency response, tracking, linearity, and almost anything else you can think of.
Remember, cartridges are very sensitive to temperature and humidity.
Demagnetising anything needs a lot of energy and a close flux linkage. You just can't achieve that via the coils of a cartridge and any sensible current. What you can do, though, is to heat the (very temperature sensitive) bearing of the stylus cantilever, and that will immediately and significantly change the frequency response, tracking, linearity, and almost anything else you can think of.
Remember, cartridges are very sensitive to temperature and humidity.
Yes.. but are we talking permanent, short term, temporary temp related or long term permanent change? And if so, why has such a myth (concerning demagnetizing) been perpetuated for such a long time?
And if not.... then the solution concerning the temperature changes you speak of may ...or may not have bearing. (pun intended)
And if not.... then the solution concerning the temperature changes you speak of may ...or may not have bearing. (pun intended)
So, any replies, or comments as of recent? any new info? I just looked at a new $7k tube phono amp that comes with a "de-magnetizer" built into it, that can be activated with the touch of a switch.
Any more arguments? so far, John Curl's comes to be the best explaination that satisfys BOTH camps here. A plausaible, sensible explaination. I still say there may be other components involved, but his is the only answer that de-rails both sides or whatever side one may have in this argument. (I mean animated discussion )
Any more arguments?
so far, John Curl's comes to be the best explaination that satisfys BOTH camps here. A plausaible, sensible explaination. I still say there may be other components involved, but his is the only answer that de-rails both sides or whatever side one may have in this argument. (I mean animated discussion )I have one...
Uhhh... lotta comment on this thread.
I have to confess I did not slog through the whole thing, but one thing I think I inferred was that someone needs to record the waveform off a cartridge demagnifier. I have a Sumiko Fluxbuster. Is this still needed?
Greg in Minneapolis
P.S. Gotta love trolls!
Uhhh... lotta comment on this thread.
I have to confess I did not slog through the whole thing, but one thing I think I inferred was that someone needs to record the waveform off a cartridge demagnifier. I have a Sumiko Fluxbuster. Is this still needed?
Greg in Minneapolis
P.S. Gotta love trolls!
yesirree bob.. We'sa looking for the waveform trace of a sumiko fluxbuster. We wuold like the entire waveform info, ie voltage, time frame, etc. Need to duplicate it digital form as a wav. file for using on sound cards, if at all possible. I have a feeling the peak voltages will be too high though. Getting the waveform is step one.
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