This is one thing that has always bugged me:
The basic requirements for demegnetizing a MC cartridge, is merely the waveform and decay envelope for a signal.
None are likely to be propietary, and none are likely to be difficult to define mathematically, or to copy, refine and then have come out of a soundcard on a PC.
Does anyone have a preamp for their PC and the ability to store the waveform off of a MC demagnetizer?
I have plenty of high powered solid state lo-z out Preamps around that can put out the signal required for demagentizing even the lowest output MC cartridges. All I need is that signal trace...heck, even a intergrated amp at low output would be fine.
I am sure the rest of you could use it too.
Perhaps we could figure out how to set the intergrated amp level so that the voltage is not too high, like using the readings off of a specific cheap-widely available multimeter for setting the output of the intergrated...making sure the intergrated has the nessessary HF response, of course.
I've seen the waveform before, and it ain't that tricky. But of course, I'm lazy and ask for help...
The basic requirements for demegnetizing a MC cartridge, is merely the waveform and decay envelope for a signal.
None are likely to be propietary, and none are likely to be difficult to define mathematically, or to copy, refine and then have come out of a soundcard on a PC.
Does anyone have a preamp for their PC and the ability to store the waveform off of a MC demagnetizer?
I have plenty of high powered solid state lo-z out Preamps around that can put out the signal required for demagentizing even the lowest output MC cartridges. All I need is that signal trace...heck, even a intergrated amp at low output would be fine.
I am sure the rest of you could use it too.
Perhaps we could figure out how to set the intergrated amp level so that the voltage is not too high, like using the readings off of a specific cheap-widely available multimeter for setting the output of the intergrated...making sure the intergrated has the nessessary HF response, of course.
I've seen the waveform before, and it ain't that tricky. But of course, I'm lazy and ask for help...
YES! Very much so. It restores the life of the units. Quite noticable. It tends to show best in the super low output units as they 'tend' to have the highest or higher charged motor structures. The moving components get megnetized and the cartridges sound muddy and slow, diffused, etc.
I used to use my signal generator and a saw tooth, or modifed sine wave on a power amp- with resistors, of course, at about a 15-50 watt load to cook cables. I would burn them for a full day.
I would make a wire run to to do the cooking that would leave the wires to be used almost *exactly* where they end up sitting..and then burn the wire in position, so to speak.
This would maximize the crystal linkages, with minimal disturbance after burning.....
I used to use my signal generator and a saw tooth, or modifed sine wave on a power amp- with resistors, of course, at about a 15-50 watt load to cook cables. I would burn them for a full day.
I would make a wire run to to do the cooking that would leave the wires to be used almost *exactly* where they end up sitting..and then burn the wire in position, so to speak.
This would maximize the crystal linkages, with minimal disturbance after burning.....
I can't see the logic in this at all.
A tape head has zero static magnetic field and at low
signal levels any magnetism does have an effect.
Conversely a MC cartridge has a large static magnetic field
and it is impossible to demagnetise the soft iron parts.
There's no reason for any moving part of a MC to be magnetic,
and I don't know of any MC with magnetic moving parts.
The reason you can't buy an MC demagnetiser seems obvious to me.
sreten.
A tape head has zero static magnetic field and at low
signal levels any magnetism does have an effect.
Conversely a MC cartridge has a large static magnetic field
and it is impossible to demagnetise the soft iron parts.
There's no reason for any moving part of a MC to be magnetic,
and I don't know of any MC with magnetic moving parts.
The reason you can't buy an MC demagnetiser seems obvious to me.
sreten.
Television CRT demagnetisers put out a very strong AC magnetic field.
The method of usage is to swamp the CRT with this high level AC field closeup, and then SLOWLY move the demagnetising wand a couple of meters away from the CRT before switching off the wand.
IOW, the active element is a slowly decaying AC magnetic field.
I think there are sig gen programs that can duplicate this.
Eric.
The method of usage is to swamp the CRT with this high level AC field closeup, and then SLOWLY move the demagnetising wand a couple of meters away from the CRT before switching off the wand.
IOW, the active element is a slowly decaying AC magnetic field.
I think there are sig gen programs that can duplicate this.
Eric.
True, its the same way tape head demagnetisers work.
But I've a feeling this thread is related to the extremely
dubious, if not incredibly stupid concept of driving a MC
cartridge with reducing AC current to 'symmetrisise' its
response.
It doesn't take a genius to realise playing music will
have the same effect, so your only choice is to juice
up the amount of current, and you'll melt the coils
before this has any noticeable effect.
Utter and complete b*ll*cks IMO, sreten.
But I've a feeling this thread is related to the extremely
dubious, if not incredibly stupid concept of driving a MC
cartridge with reducing AC current to 'symmetrisise' its
response.
It doesn't take a genius to realise playing music will
have the same effect, so your only choice is to juice
up the amount of current, and you'll melt the coils
before this has any noticeable effect.
Utter and complete b*ll*cks IMO,
sreten.
You can buy a MC cartridge de-magnetizer any time. Go look on the net. And they work.
Have you tried one?
And yes, it is merely a pulse and then decay of a sine, but what time frame, envelope, etc.?
The Sumiko 'fluxbuster' was good one.
Don't diss what you haven't tried, however 'human-condition' such behaviour may be. Doubt, sure, but have you tried one????
I see why this forum has such hard rules about nasty posting. It is slowly showing it's face to me across the threads I have started or posted in.
Engineers need to get out of their textbooks and remember that the guys who originally wrote the rules were hammered in their own right....and were the stout visionaries of their times.
But that 'ole human condition......
There is another thing though; as it is with all the human senses.... it is the sheer ability to discern the differences ----it varies within the population.
Fact.
But let us not argue! , and get on to the business of fixing this issue. If you want to attack, go out and cut some wood.
If you want to discuss this cartridge demagnetizing and wire burn in issue, stay here and involve yourself constructively.
Thank you.
Have you tried one?
And yes, it is merely a pulse and then decay of a sine, but what time frame, envelope, etc.?
The Sumiko 'fluxbuster' was good one.
Don't diss what you haven't tried, however 'human-condition' such behaviour may be. Doubt, sure, but have you tried one????
I see why this forum has such hard rules about nasty posting. It is slowly showing it's face to me across the threads I have started or posted in.
Engineers need to get out of their textbooks and remember that the guys who originally wrote the rules were hammered in their own right....and were the stout visionaries of their times.
But that 'ole human condition......
There is another thing though; as it is with all the human senses.... it is the sheer ability to discern the differences ----it varies within the population.
Fact.
But let us not argue!
, and get on to the business of fixing this issue. If you want to attack, go out and cut some wood. If you want to discuss this cartridge demagnetizing and wire burn in issue, stay here and involve yourself constructively.
Thank you.
Originally posted by sreten
It doesn't take a genius to realise playing music will
have the same effect, so your only choice is to juice
up the amount of current, and you'll melt the coils
before this has any noticeable effect.
Any genius knows that music waveform is anything but a smoothly decaying sine waveform.
Eric.
It doesn't take a genius to realise playing music will
have the same effect, so your only choice is to juice
up the amount of current, and you'll melt the coils
before this has any noticeable effect.
Any genius knows that music waveform is anything but a smoothly decaying sine waveform.
Eric.
Lets get into conjecture here and muse about a bit. Perhaps the end result is that the motional considerations of a MC are so high, ie..acceleration.. that the crystal junctures in the tiny wires are damaged over time..and using the relatively high current AC signal from the 'demagnetizer' causes them to be re-established to some degree, thus clearing up the sound.
As the noise from the juntures is supposed to occur at very low levels..and a MC is ALL low levels... then the lower the output of the MC cartridge, the greater the effect noticed.
Now that might be true, possibly..but..... Using a Multi-meter for checking the colis of a MC is known to degrade the sonics of the unit. It is considered to be a no-no,and that they MC will have to have it's movng components 'degaussed' if this is done..
We are talking microvolts here, in a dynamic system. All bets are off. This is the kind of areas that we scientifically accept conjecture as fact, forgetting that in science --it is ALL hypothesis and conjecture and that there is in reality (whatever that means
)...... no such thing as a 'fact'. We are dipping into Heisenberg here.
You guys who have never been around MC units in these modern SS-CD (YUCKY!
) days tend to not know much about what a stereo system can really do.......
CD: A giant step backwards in fidelity. The advent and adoption of CD made me grind my teeth for nearly ten years.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I remember getting into debates with my old college electronics Prof. He was one of the guys who was instrumental in the creation of the early warning radar system up north. I used to hammer him on facts, and he would take me aside and say to let the engineers and the flat earthers revel in ther facts and books but between he and I... we could both deal with the understanding that it is all conjecture and there are no facts. Just some accepted guidelines that keep changing due to changes in pressure groups and new 'understandings'. He told me to stop messing with the cattle and leave them alone in their self created securities.
As the noise from the juntures is supposed to occur at very low levels..and a MC is ALL low levels... then the lower the output of the MC cartridge, the greater the effect noticed.
Now that might be true, possibly..but..... Using a Multi-meter for checking the colis of a MC is known to degrade the sonics of the unit. It is considered to be a no-no,and that they MC will have to have it's movng components 'degaussed' if this is done..
We are talking microvolts here, in a dynamic system. All bets are off. This is the kind of areas that we scientifically accept conjecture as fact, forgetting that in science --it is ALL hypothesis and conjecture and that there is in reality (whatever that means
)...... no such thing as a 'fact'. We are dipping into Heisenberg here.You guys who have never been around MC units in these modern SS-CD (YUCKY!
) days tend to not know much about what a stereo system can really do.......CD: A giant step backwards in fidelity. The advent and adoption of CD made me grind my teeth for nearly ten years.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I remember getting into debates with my old college electronics Prof. He was one of the guys who was instrumental in the creation of the early warning radar system up north. I used to hammer him on facts, and he would take me aside and say to let the engineers and the flat earthers revel in ther facts and books but between he and I... we could both deal with the understanding that it is all conjecture and there are no facts. Just some accepted guidelines that keep changing due to changes in pressure groups and new 'understandings'. He told me to stop messing with the cattle and leave them alone in their self created securities.
But we are talking 'Moviny Coil' cartridges here, where the moving components are separte from the magnetic structure. Yes, sandwiched, or in the field, but separate.
Pehaps, over time, a 'orientation' in the junctures is created, and they have to be re-established in a more 'uniform' or less 'polarized' manner. High acclerations like that can do such things... over time...possibly. A micro motional version of 'zapping donuts', which is the inner-industry descriptive for magnetizing ring magnets for loudspeaker magnetic structures.
Remember, magnetism can be considered in some forward thinking circles to merely be a temporal bubble..and gravity is a push....
Pehaps, over time, a 'orientation' in the junctures is created, and they have to be re-established in a more 'uniform' or less 'polarized' manner. High acclerations like that can do such things... over time...possibly. A micro motional version of 'zapping donuts', which is the inner-industry descriptive for magnetizing ring magnets for loudspeaker magnetic structures.
Remember, magnetism can be considered in some forward thinking circles to merely be a temporal bubble..and gravity is a push....
Hi,
This is a snippet from what I found on the net:
Now, to the best of my knowledge I don't think there's any magnetic component in an MC other than the magnets themselves...
So, WTF is this thing doing?
You can't magnetise CU or AG wire, so what's this thing going to degauss?
Whatever it does or does not, does it make an audible difference?
Cheers,
This is a snippet from what I found on the net:
Now, to the best of my knowledge I don't think there's any magnetic component in an MC other than the magnets themselves...
So, WTF is this thing doing?
You can't magnetise CU or AG wire, so what's this thing going to degauss?
Whatever it does or does not, does it make an audible difference?
Cheers,
KBK,
I have borrowed a Sumiko fluxbuster from a friend once.
Indeed it worked on my MC cartridge.
When connecting its output to a scoop you can see a sinus of 33kHz slowly decaying after aprox 2 seconds.
In the manual , I recall, they suggested to also try it on dynamic headphones, This I didn't try, cause I don't own one.
Why it works I don't know, but perhaps the results vary on different cartridges due to materials used.
Dick.
I have borrowed a Sumiko fluxbuster from a friend once.
Indeed it worked on my MC cartridge.
When connecting its output to a scoop you can see a sinus of 33kHz slowly decaying after aprox 2 seconds.
In the manual , I recall, they suggested to also try it on dynamic headphones, This I didn't try, cause I don't own one.
Why it works I don't know, but perhaps the results vary on different cartridges due to materials used.
Dick.
Hi,
You don't have to take my word on it but Au, Ag and Cu are all not ferromagnetic, not as a pure element anyway.
Naturally alloys with ferromagnetic materials exist but no one in cartridge manufacturing uses those, I think.
Alloys like that are often used to increase tensile strength but that's a concern to the industry and military, not audio.
BTW, in case I forgot, my best wishes for 2004, Steve.
Cheers,
You don't have to take my word on it but Au, Ag and Cu are all not ferromagnetic, not as a pure element anyway.
Naturally alloys with ferromagnetic materials exist but no one in cartridge manufacturing uses those, I think.
Alloys like that are often used to increase tensile strength but that's a concern to the industry and military, not audio.
BTW, in case I forgot, my best wishes for 2004, Steve.
Cheers,
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